Cape Independence!

[manesan]

I whose best interests? The Cape's? I dont think so. An Independent Cape will be in the best interests of everyone in the region.

Opinion or fact?

 

[Cape-Independence]

manesan: why are you against Cape secession? How would it affect you?

 

[genetic]

Opinion or fact?

Cape-Ind has yet to provide any facts.

 

[ToxicBunny]

The best Cape-Ind has provided are the lies that are on the CapeParty site.

 

[CapeNat]

Cape-Ind has yet to provide any facts.

I hav'nt heard anyone give a valid reason why the Cape should not be independent.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Here's a valid reason for you CapeNat.

They're a province of South Africa.

 

[Cape-Independence]

Me neither. Some ppl quick to shoot it down but not so quick to say why. At the end of the day, if ppl here want Independence then they should have it.

Anyone in george? Cape party Rep is on local radio tonight at 6pm.

 

[CapeNat]

Here's a valid reason for you CapeNat.

They're a province of South Africa.

Thats not valid reason.

 

[Cape-Independence]

Provinces do sometimes opt for independence, happens all the time.

Some rescent ones that jump to mind, Kossovo, East Timor and Eritrea.

If in the past 20 years, list reads:

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Slovenia
Macedonia
Namibia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
palau

 

[Cape-Independence]

CapeNat: how did you hear about the Cape Party? Have you been to their offices in CT?

 

[CapeNat]

Provinces do sometimes opt for independence, happens all the time.

Some rescent ones that jump to mind, Kossovo, East Timor and Eritrea.

If in the past 20 years, list reads:

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Slovenia
Macedonia
Namibia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
palau

And plenty more autonomous states.

 

[CapeNat]

CapeNat: how did you hear about the Cape Party? Have you been to their offices in CT?

From the papers. No but ill definately make a stop there when in town again! Still in Claremont hey?

 

[genetic]

Me neither. Some ppl quick to shoot it down but not so quick to say why.

If you actually read the posts in this thread, you will find many reasons why people are against independence.

At the end of the day, if ppl here want Independence then they should have it.

And those that don't?

Provinces do sometimes opt for independence, happens all the time.

Some rescent ones that jump to mind, Kossovo, East Timor and Eritrea.

If in the past 20 years, list reads:

Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Slovenia
Macedonia
Namibia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
palau

How many of these states were peaceful in their transformation into independence?

 

[CapeNat]

Toxic, youre usually always on here? Are you looking for a valid reason?

 

[Cape-Independence]

Countries with at least one Autonomous region:


---------------------------------------------------------------
Argentina - ciudad autonoma (autonomous city) Buenos Aires

Azerbaijan - muxtar respublika
autonomous republic Nakhichevan

Bosnia and Herzegovina - Entitet
Entity Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina · Republika Srpska

Cambodia - krong
autonomous municipality Phnom Penh · Sihanoukville · Pailin · Kep

Central African Republic - commune autonome
autonomous commune Bangui

China (PRC) - ,zìzhìqū
autonomous region Guangxi · Inner Mongolia · Ningxia · Xinjiang · Tibet
tèbié xíngzhèngqū
Special administrative region Hong Kong · Macau
zìzhìzhōu
autonomous prefecture Linxia Hui · Gannan · Qiandongnan · Qiannan · Qianxinan · Enshi · Xiangxi · Yanbian · Haibei · Hainan · Huangnan · Golog · Gyêgu · Haixi · Ngawa · Garzê · Liangshan · Kizilsu · Bortala · Changji · Bayin'gholin · Ili · Dehong · Nujiang · Dêqên · Dali · Chuxiong · Honghe · Wenshan · Xishuangbanna
zìzhìxiàn
autonomous county over 110[3]
zìzhìqí

Comoros
autonomous island Grande Comore · Mohéli · Anjouan

Denmark
autonomous region Faroe Islands · Greenland[4]

Finland - itsehallinnollinen maakunta
autonomous province Åland

Georgia avtonomiuri respublika
autonomous republic Abkhazia · Adjara

Greece
autonomous region Mount Athos

Guinea-Bissau sector autónomo
autonomous sector Bissau Region

Indonesia daerah istimewa
special region Aceh · Yogyakarta · Papua · Jakarta[5]

Iraq autonomous region Kurdistan Region

Italy regione autonoma
autonomous region Aosta Valley · Friuli-Venezia Giulia · Sardinia · Sicily · Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol

South Korea teukbyeol jachido
autonomous province Jeju-do

Madagascar faritany mizakatena
autonomous province All six provinces are characterized as autonomous (mizakatena).

Mauritius
autonomous province Rodrigues

Moldova unitate teritorială autonomă
autonomous territorial unit Găgăuzia · Transnistria[6]

Nicaragua regione autónoma
autonomous region Región Autónoma del Atlántico Norte · Región Autónoma del Atlántico Sur

Pakistan Islami-Jamhouriyat-e-Kashmir
autonomous region Azad Kashmir

Papua New Guinea autonomous province Bougainville

Philippines
autonomous region Muslim Mindanao

Portugal região autónoma
autonomous region Azores · Madeira

Russia respublika
republic Adygea · Altai · Bashkortostan · Buryatia · Chechnya · Chuvashia · Dagestan · Ingushetia · Kabardino-Balkaria · Kalmykia · Karachay-Cherkessia · Karelia · Khakassia · Komi · Mari El · Mordovia · North Ossetia-Alania · Sakha (Yakutia) · Tatarstan · Tuva · Udmurtia
avtonomnaya oblast
autonomous province[7] Jewish Autonomous Oblast
avtonomny okrug
autonomous subject-level district[8] Agin-Buryat · Chukotka · Khanty-Mansi · Nenets · Yamalo-Nenets

São Tomé & Príncipe concelho
province (Príncipe[9])

Serbia
autonomous province Kosovo and Metohija · Vojvodina

Spain comunidad autónoma
autonomous community Andalusia · Aragon · Asturias · Balearic Islands · Basque Country · Canary Islands · Cantabria · Castile-La Mancha · Castile and León · Catalonia · Extremadura · Galicia · La Rioja · Madrid · Murcia · Navarre · Valencia
ciudad autónoma
autonomous city Ceuta · Melilla

Sudan Southern Sudan · Transitional Darfur Regional Authority

Tajikistan viloyat mukhtor
autonomous province Gorno-Badakhshan

Tanzania
revolutionary government Zanzibar[10]

Tokelau autonomous community Atafu · Fakaofo · Nukunonu

Ukraine avtonomna respublika
autonomous republic Crimea

United Kingdom constituent country (with devolution) Northern Ireland · Scotland · Wales

Uzbekistan respublika
republic Karakalpakstan
shahar
autonomous city Tashkent

 

[Cape-Independence]

CapeNat, you want me to organise some t-shirts, flyers, bumper stickers for you to hand out in you area?

 

[CapeNat]

[
How many of these states were peaceful in their transformation into independence?[/QUOTE]

Many. Depends what you mean by peaceful, some obviously had more conflict than others ie all out civil war, others a few clashes here and there. Secession from SA must be and will be as peaceful as possible. Theres no need whatsoever for any form of violence, in whatever form. I do though think the violence and intimidation will come not from the secession suporters but from govt or govt supported groups, if and when secession becomes more of a reality.

 

[CapeNat]

absolutely man! You comming to Knysna anytime soon? Im back in slaapstad beginning september only.

 

[Cape-Independence]

Ya bru, actually im coming up to the Garden route for business end of july and was gonna swing by the George rep as well...

You can also get hold of me here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2372533283

 

[Cape-Independence]

Left seizes control of South Africa’s ANC
A communist firebrand has shifted the ruling party to the left

SOUTH AFRICA’S ruling African National Congress (ANC) has veered sharply to the left and will go into elections, expected to be held in April, with a manifesto largely dictated by the country’s Communist party, according to senior party officials.

Under Jacob Zuma, its new leader, it has quietly adopted a radical platform of social policies which the business community claim are unaffordable.

The ANC already promises a free allowance of water and electricity to all and has introduced the largest welfare state ever seen in a developing country, with more than 40% of the population in receipt of state handouts.

Under the influence of its firebrand new secretary-general, Gwede Mantashe, a former leader of the mine-workers’ union and chairman of the South African Communist party, it is adopting policies and rhetoric based on left-wing states such as Cuba and Venezuela.

Hailed by Zwelinzima Vavi, the trade union leader, as “a peasant, a worker, an organic intellectual, a Marxist and an African communist”, the bearded Mantashe is loud, dominating and furiously partisan. He has purged suspected supporters of Thabo Mbeki, the former president, and those who show “insufficient revolutionary fervour”.

Under his influence the ANC is expected to propose, in its as yet unpublished manifesto, the introduction of universal health insurance, free education, the extension of child allowances to all children up to the age of 18, new maternity grants, wage subsidies, an old age savings scheme, subsidised housing for farm workers and military veterans, free food handouts to all poor families, an expanded public housing programme and the “transformation” of the private sector through the “development of cooperative financial institutions”.

Greta Steyn, one of South Africa’s leading financial analysts, describes it as “a massive shift to the left”. The markets, she says, are in denial and have failed to price in the risk of what lies ahead. What it means, she suggests, is that the country’s budgetary framework “must be thrown into the bin”. The markets, she warns, “should wake up and smell the rot”.

The ANC insists that its programme is affordable but has provided no costings.

Servaas van der Berg, professor of economics at Stellenbosch University, has shown that even a basic income grant of R100 (£7) a month would force up marginal income tax rates from 40% to 66%, without counting the cost of the rest of the programme.

The only alternative to tax increases would be massive foreign borrowing to fund state handouts. Trevor Manuel, the government’s finance minister, warns that South Africa already has one of the world’s largest current account deficits and needs at least £15 billion a year in foreign investment just to stay afloat.

Under Mbeki, president from 1999 until his resignation last year, the communists became increasingly bitter at what they regarded as their political marginalisation. However, Mbeki’s decision to ditch Zuma, his popular deputy president, in 2005, gave them a second chance. They rallied to Zuma’s defence and, buoyed by his strong Zulu support, triumphed when he became the ANC leader in 2007.

Although dogged by corruption charges, which he denies, Zuma, himself a former communist, will be the ANC’s presidential candidate.

He has allowed the communists to dominate the drafting process of the ANC’s new manifesto and the party’s economic programme. Mantashe continually stakes out positions some way in advance of mainstream ANC policy, coming out strongly for the creation of more state enterprises, particularly in the mining sector.

When business groups asked how this could be squared with Zuma’s promise of policy continuity, Mantashe brusquely told them that “continuity and change is a dialectical concept”. They were not reassured by the Marxist terminology.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5581272.ece