CapeXit 2

[quovadis]

I don't believe there's any implicit right to call a referendum on any topic anyone feels like backing.

I still believe it's massively presumptuous to expect the taxpayer to fund a referendum that very few people actually appear to give a damn about.

As stated many times, a private referendum is the way to go. If that carried, they'd have a mandate. But we all know it's better to spend other people's money.

You'd think if there was so much demand for such it would be a very low barrier to raise the funds privately...

 

[vigras rojara]

You'd think if there was so much demand for such it would be a very low barrier to raise the funds privately...

Exactly. And also there would be much more noise amongst the populace calling for it.

They'd never go the private referendum route though, because it's highly likely that it would fail and then they'd have to shut up for a bit. Although they'd probably have 100 excuses for it's failure, similarly to the excuses for their dismal election failures.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

I don't believe there's any implicit right to call a referendum on any topic anyone feels like backing.

I still believe it's massively presumptuous to expect the taxpayer to fund a referendum that very few people actually appear to give a damn about.

As stated many times, a private referendum is the way to go. If that carried, they'd have a mandate. But we all know it's better to spend other people's money.

But it's okay if the ANC spend billions of tax payer money to enrich themselves, their tjommies, other foreign tjommies etc.. and nothing happens to them, no case, no prosecution, no conviction, no nothing....

 

[vigras rojara]

But it's okay if the ANC spend billions of tax payer money to enrich themselves, their tjommies, other foreign tjommies etc.. and nothing happens to them, no case, no prosecution, no conviction, no nothing....

No it isn't, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the Western Cape's ambivalence towards independence.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

No it isn't, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the Western Cape's ambivalence towards independence.

You mentioned wasting tax payers money, something the ANC has been doing on a daily basis for 30 odd years...

 

[vigras rojara]

You mentioned wasting tax payers money, something the ANC has been doing on a daily basis for 30 odd years...

Yes, but that isn't a reason to waste even more taxpayer's money on an exercise that very few are interested in.

If the WC populace wanted it, we'd hear more about it.

 

[NoStepOnSnek88]

@lexity another question to you, if you want to answer.

Doesn't the OHM Party have or hold many of your core values and beliefs, in a "political" sense, not necessarily in your own personal sense.

Are they not somewhat aligned with the same "political" views and stance as the CI movement etc ?

Not talking about a referendum or independence here, just opinions, views, stance, beliefs and values in a political sense.

LINK:

Bot Verification

 

[lexity]

@lexity another question to you, if you want to answer.

Doesn't the OHM Party have or hold many of your core values and beliefs, in a "political" sense, not necessarily in your own personal sense.

Are they not somewhat aligned with the same "political" views and stance as the CI movement etc ?

Not talking about a referendum or independence here, just opinions, views, stance, beliefs and values in a political sense.

LINK:

Bot Verification

Will get back to you on this.

 

[lexity]

what's with the anger toward @Brian_G ?
he stated he never reported your posts - as i think a few others have also made clear.

Initially he didn't state that it wasn't him.

He has reported me before. He had the Cape independence: an update thread shutdown.

He got flustered by Bobbin and my arguments. And he buckled under the pressure of good arguments to seek censorship.

He got his way, even though later he claims the mod took it further than he intended/wanted.

i most certainly did not - i have a preference for open ground combat.

Well.... it was odd timing. And I didn't accuse you of reporting me.... I merely asked you if you instigated it.

maybe it was on of the mods who simply took a decision without any prompting or reports - i really have no idea.

Perhaps. But it is cowardly to censor people who's view you disagree with. And I also think your opening post may have had something to do with it.

what i do find a little peculiar is BG is probably your biggest supporter, often your defender, and champion of your cause - and yet you choose your running mate as your target.

No. BG takes the side of the underdog. That's his default position. He wants everyone to get along, even if it means repeating tragic history. If you press him to be consistent, or corner him with logic you will see a nasty side to him.

He also likes to approach people out of the public eye i.e. via DM.

When I realized he uses this in a manipulative way, I decided to cut DM messaging out completely, with him.
Since I did that, the communication is far more honest. I prefer that, even if it means its a bit edgier..

I believe every person is good, deep down, so it's never personal. But where I see someone overstep the line, I have to call it.

When someone reserves the right to flip-flop and defer to authority....that to me needs to be called out.

Besides, BG is constantly trying to insinuate that open debate is not called for when it involves what he terms 'extreme' positions. Referring to common-sense and logically sound discourse as 'Libert' is underhanded and coniving.

He refuses to accept offers to read articles which explain basic concepts in well-used terminology accessible to the layman, which I always found a bit strange for someone who so overtly wants everyone to get along.

He seems to conflate a convincing argument with being scammed. Entertaining a thought without accepting it, is a line that many on Mybb appear determined never to cross.

ps: who is the "we" you are referring to ?

I always think of my position as being the majority position..... even though the majority is silent, for the most part, on its preference for ethical argumentation/discourse.... I believe I am in the majority. People prefer to avoid conflict but there are certain things that go unsaid but which are nevertheless solid ground. If you cross the line, very often people will say nothing but think a lot about it.

 

[Brian_G]

Don't anyone hold your breath for a rebuttal, we all know Lex so none needed. Just ask yourself this - could it be he was much worse a few years ago?

Neurotic and self justified to the point of self deception, confident in his assumed saviour (or whatever that is) role. That's our your Lex.

Am I innocent? Of course not
Am I loyal? Well I've tried to remain kind, now I'll just ignore. Not the one with a problem so I see no need to attack.

 

[Brian_G]

This thread currently trending as #3 on the forum. Anyone know why? - mostly not about all our daily tug-o-war over minute technical secession issues, must be something else....

Bye

 

[BBSA]

Bye

For real this time?

 

[Brian_G]

He also likes to approach people out of the public eye i.e. via DM.

BTW, anyone else who's regularly here ever chatted with me via DM?

Only @Grant once that I recall, after his health ordeal a year or so back..

When I realized he uses this in a manipulative way, I decided to cut DM messaging out completely, with him.

I must have been doing something right though, DM's went on for over 5 years..

BTW, be careful everyone - casually discussing this topic is fine, but we're told in some pinned rules threads that discussing actual DM-content is a permanent ban offence.

(And no, Lex, that ^^ is not a veiled threat to report you, if you're thinking that - my guess is that you are)

For real this time?

Nah. But one of these days..

 

[Brian_G]

Am I loyal? Well I've tried to remain kind, now I'll just ignore.

Ignoring will just be what suits me, day by day.

Heck, I might even put up with some new DM's from him.. I do continue to like him. I guess his sarcasm is very funny and clever, always gives me a good laugh.


Hi

 

[Brian_G]

You'd think if there was so much demand for such it would be a very low barrier to raise the funds privately...

Exactly. And also there would be much more noise amongst the populace calling for it.

They'd never go the private referendum route though, because it's highly likely that it would fail and then they'd have to shut up for a bit. Although they'd probably have 100 excuses for it's failure, similarly to the excuses for their dismal election failures.

So many presumptions.. how unusual :-/


Guys, who says he hasn't raised the funds, or a decent part of that? He usually follows through you know

And you really think this dude is gonna allow things to just sommer fail twice?? Lol


(Apologies for Bill Gates being included in the following point)

 

[Grant]

Well.... it was odd timing. And I didn't accuse you of reporting me.... I merely asked you if you instigated it.

no, i did not

Perhaps. But it is cowardly to censor people who's view you disagree with. And I also think your opening post may have had something to do with it.

possibly, but my name is not gypsy-rose, i have no magical tea leaves, nor do i posses a crystal ball.
so maybe, maybe not.
i do however stand behind the post - this thread is for discussion around w/c secession - not libertarian philosophy.

No. BG takes the side of the underdog. That's his default position. He wants everyone to get along, even if it means repeating tragic history. If you press him to be consistent, or corner him with logic you will see a nasty side to him.

you do realise this is not a court of law, dont you ?

He also likes to approach people out of the public eye i.e. via DM.

i cant comment - have no knowledge or previous experience

When I realized he uses this in a manipulative way, I decided to cut DM messaging out completely, with him.
Since I did that, the communication is far more honest. I prefer that, even if it means its a bit edgier..

that is your prerogative

I believe every person is good, deep down, so it's never personal. But where I see someone overstep the line, I have to call it.

what line, who drew this line you speak of

When someone reserves the right to flip-flop and defer to authority....that to me needs to be called out.

again, your prerogative

Besides, BG is constantly trying to insinuate that open debate is not called for when it involves what he terms 'extreme' positions. Referring to common-sense and logically sound discourse as 'Libert' is underhanded and coniving.

opinion

He refuses to accept offers to read articles which explain basic concepts in well-used terminology accessible to the layman, which I always found a bit strange for someone who so overtly wants everyone to get along.

does he, is this a regular thing - or perhaps from time to time ?

He seems to conflate a convincing argument with being scammed. Entertaining a thought without accepting it, is a line that many on Mybb appear determined never to cross.

i'm going to take a flying jump and resort to assumptions: the "convincing argument" you refer to, is that per chance arguments you happen to present ?

I always think of my position as being the majority position..... even though the majority is silent, for the most part, on its preference for ethical argumentation/discourse.... I believe I am in the majority. People prefer to avoid conflict but there are certain things that go unsaid but which are nevertheless solid ground. If you cross the line, very often people will say nothing but think a lot about it.

you probably need to rethink your position, just a little.
some by nature are simply averse to conflict and confrontation, others, not so much !

people saying nothing about anything in particular, but give it silent contemplation is a win in itself. without thought and contemplation, nothing will be initiated, and even less achieved.

 

[Grant]

For real this time?

runaway bride be holding a boomerang

 

[Grant]

I always think of my position as being the majority position..... even though the majority is silent, for the most part, on its preference for ethical argumentation/discourse....

i suspect you might enjoy afternoon tea with a neighbor of mine - not "boundary wall neighbor" but no more than
30m away neighbor.
julian kinderlerer.

julian is direct neighbor to dion george, who is direct neighbor to me - interesting conversations . . .

On ethics, trust and responsible R&I - Interview with Professor Julian Kinderlerer​

 

[Brian_G]

All these activity and location clues, and bride hints, methinks @Grant is looking for new bridal material...

... Lex, you're much closer (and I'm sure younger is preferred), be a good chap and help the man out.

 

[Grant]

All these activity and location clues, and bride hints, methinks @Grant is looking for new bridal material...

... Lex, you're much closer (and I'm sure younger is preferred), be a good chap and help the man out.

oh hell no - my cup runneth over, the chicken coop is full