Career advice at 31.

[RedTerror]

Hi all, not sure if this is the right section to be posting this, but I'll give it a shot anyways.
I want advice about my career at 31/changing it potentially.

So I currently am working, and I earn a lot, in my opinion, on average 30-35k per month. I know its not exorbitant amounts, but I am honestly so happy to be where I am, all things considered. I do Group Sales for one of the small-medium sized tech companies in SA. I worked my way up over 9 years, and that is where I currently am.
The hours are crazy, I'm usually doing 220-240 hours a month. But I do it because I feel responsible for the company, and I carry a lot of that weight on my shoulders. I always feel like, I need to be giving more, lest the company fail. That is just a personal anxiety of mine, mentally I realize, a company is far larger than the individual.

That being said, I am stressed about the future. The con of working my way up, is that I have no formal qualification in this field. Only a lot of connections and experience that I've built up over the last 9 years.

But not having any formal qualification (related to IT) has always bothered me, and forced me to work harder, out of fear of failure.

So I want to study, I did do IT/CAT in school, but most of it I have forgotten, also being in Group Sales for IT company, I've never really left the industry, but I also never became specialized in any 1x department, other than sales and client-networking.

I want to study in what little free time I have. I was thinking of studying FullStack Development, I've spoken to some people in the industry. They have told me to stay away from trying to learn a bit of everything, and rather focus on a fundamental understanding of 1x thing first.

Any advice/opinions are welcomed. I also thought about branching out into Business Management as well, but I am not sure how saturated that market is, outside of the lack of CA's in RSA.

Thanks,

 

[DapperDanMan]

The hours are crazy, I'm usually doing 220-240 hours a month. But I do it because I feel responsible for the company, and I carry a lot of that weight on my shoulders. I always feel like, I need to be giving more, lest the company fail. That is just a personal anxiety of mine, mentally I realize, a company is far larger than the individual.

That being said, I am stressed about the future.

 

[Thrasil]

Sounds like you want to diversify away from sales. Sales is a skill just like being able to code or do taxes. If you enjoy it why not try develop it more rather than change specialties since you have put the time into it already. If you wanting to skill up then look at complimentary skills with marketing, analytics, lead generation etc. Just think what would make your job better.

my 2cents is you will never catch up to the developers already at your company that your company would want to move you out of sales until many years down the line. So you would need to start again at another company (which may be what you want). In that time frame however you could achieve alot in sales. If you achieve your sales targets, the company will bend over backwards to keep you happy. If you think they would not. Then time to change companies.

 

[RedViking]

Have you considered having a discussion with the company with regards to the hours? They might be willing to adjust your time + an increase to keep you on. Not sure how you will be able to study with those hours.

 

[axsis]

I'm usually doing 220-240 hours a month

It's nuts that people find this fine. Is this directly improving your salary at all? If not cut back you are a human not a job.

So I want to study, I did do IT/CAT in school, but most of it I have forgotten, also being in Group Sales for IT company, I've never really left the industry, but I also never became specialized in any 1x department, other than sales and client-networking.

A guy I knew became a software QA after being in Sales and ending up doing a QA stint for a bit. So it's not impossible. QA is another avenue that can get you into Software Engineering, it's a bit of studying but you can get the ISTQB, not sure if that's your thing though.

They have told me to stay away from trying to learn a bit of everything, and rather focus on a fundamental understanding of 1x thing first.

They are right but fundamentally the truth of the matter is as someone without the educational background you need to start building a portfolio (usually github), hell the same advice applies to anyone in this industry (something I need to take seriously). I think there's a fundamental mindset you have to change here, it's not learning it's doing. I've seen the approach of learning via courses etc. and it doesn't get you used to actually creating. I think learning the principles of software engineering (patterns, clean code, devops etc.) are important as well as some of the more academic aspects like Big O and data structures etc. but to build is what will develop real skill and tenacity, it will also show you whether you like this at all and if you don't, don't do it.

The job market is not exactly great for non-graduates. I would also warn that to start a new career you will go down to the entry level but you should be roughly back to where you are now by about 3 years but it's tricky to get the foot in the door.

 

[My_King]

Don't come to IT admin, IT tech, IT support....

 

[Snyper564]

Hi all, not sure if this is the right section to be posting this, but I'll give it a shot anyways.
I want advice about my career at 31/changing it potentially.

So I currently am working, and I earn a lot, in my opinion, on average 30-35k per month. I know its not exorbitant amounts, but I am honestly so happy to be where I am, all things considered. I do Group Sales for one of the small-medium sized tech companies in SA. I worked my way up over 9 years, and that is where I currently am.
The hours are crazy, I'm usually doing 220-240 hours a month. But I do it because I feel responsible for the company, and I carry a lot of that weight on my shoulders. I always feel like, I need to be giving more, lest the company fail. That is just a personal anxiety of mine, mentally I realize, a company is far larger than the individual.

That being said, I am stressed about the future. The con of working my way up, is that I have no formal qualification in this field. Only a lot of connections and experience that I've built up over the last 9 years.

But not having any formal qualification (related to IT) has always bothered me, and forced me to work harder, out of fear of failure.

So I want to study, I did do IT/CAT in school, but most of it I have forgotten, also being in Group Sales for IT company, I've never really left the industry, but I also never became specialized in any 1x department, other than sales and client-networking.

I want to study in what little free time I have. I was thinking of studying FullStack Development, I've spoken to some people in the industry. They have told me to stay away from trying to learn a bit of everything, and rather focus on a fundamental understanding of 1x thing first.

Any advice/opinions are welcomed. I also thought about branching out into Business Management as well, but I am not sure how saturated that market is, outside of the lack of CA's in RSA.

Thanks,

put your salary over hours and you realise you are working at R125 an hour that should be a wake up call you are working yourself into the ground. Would never work those hours for that salary. You need to up one and reduce the other.

 

[joker08]

I don't understand why you would give up sales for a developer/qa position. You have the skills and potential to earn much more than any IT guy.
I would say stick to sales and find another better paying job.
Regarding your education, I just want to tell u about this guy I knew who used to sell IT solutions(mostly payroll or e-commerce stuff) to companies, I asked him "how do u manage ? U literally have no IT knowledge" to which he said " the customer ALSO doesn't have any IT knowledge " .

 

[Priapus]

I don't understand why you would give up sales for a developer/qa position. You have the skills and potential to earn much more than any IT guy.
I would say stick to sales and find another better paying job.
Regarding your education, I just want to tell u about this guy I knew who used to sell IT solutions(mostly payroll or e-commerce stuff) to companies, I asked him "how do u manage ? U literally have no IT knowledge" to which he said " the customer ALSO doesn't have any IT knowledge " .

I highly doubt a sales guy will earn more than a software developer with similar experience.

 

[joker08]

I highly doubt a sales guy will earn more than a software developer with similar experience.

I know several people who do earn more. It Depends on the company and the products and the revenue u are generating.

 

[SHL]

Hi all, not sure if this is the right section to be posting this, but I'll give it a shot anyways.
I want advice about my career at 31/changing it potentially.

So I currently am working, and I earn a lot, in my opinion, on average 30-35k per month. I know its not exorbitant amounts, but I am honestly so happy to be where I am, all things considered. I do Group Sales for one of the small-medium sized tech companies in SA. I worked my way up over 9 years, and that is where I currently am.
The hours are crazy, I'm usually doing 220-240 hours a month. But I do it because I feel responsible for the company, and I carry a lot of that weight on my shoulders. I always feel like, I need to be giving more, lest the company fail. That is just a personal anxiety of mine, mentally I realize, a company is far larger than the individual.

That being said, I am stressed about the future. The con of working my way up, is that I have no formal qualification in this field. Only a lot of connections and experience that I've built up over the last 9 years.

But not having any formal qualification (related to IT) has always bothered me, and forced me to work harder, out of fear of failure.

So I want to study, I did do IT/CAT in school, but most of it I have forgotten, also being in Group Sales for IT company, I've never really left the industry, but I also never became specialized in any 1x department, other than sales and client-networking.

I want to study in what little free time I have. I was thinking of studying FullStack Development, I've spoken to some people in the industry. They have told me to stay away from trying to learn a bit of everything, and rather focus on a fundamental understanding of 1x thing first.

Any advice/opinions are welcomed. I also thought about branching out into Business Management as well, but I am not sure how saturated that market is, outside of the lack of CA's in RSA.

Thanks,

I'm in the exact same position (although I'm 40). Losing my devotion to sales but I need the income and I don't see myself working anywhere else as I don't have any additional skills. Guess I'll have to stick it out and possibly look at moving departments if the opportunity arises.

 

[randomcat]

I know several people who do earn more. It Depends on the company and the products and the revenue u are generating.

This guy knows. Either you are cooking meth or selling meth. Sometimes you make more as the cook sometimes you make more as the dealer. Either way, the meth must move.

 

[B-1]

Figure out what role you want in 5 years then look at job sites for what the requirements are for that role then work at getting those qualifications and experience.

 

[RedTerror]

Hi all, apologies for the delay. As you can most likely guess lol, I don't have much free time.

Sounds like you want to diversify away from sales. Sales is a skill just like being able to code or do taxes. If you enjoy it why not try develop it more rather than change specialties since you have put the time into it already. If you wanting to skill up then look at complimentary skills with marketing, analytics, lead generation etc. Just think what would make your job better.

my 2cents is you will never catch up to the developers already at your company that your company would want to move you out of sales until many years down the line. So you would need to start again at another company (which may be what you want). In that time frame however you could achieve alot in sales. If you achieve your sales targets, the company will bend over backwards to keep you happy. If you think they would not. Then time to change companies.

That is 100% true, I am so far behind the curve, I was teaching myself from HTML/CSS and found a YouTuber in RSA named Shaun Roselt, checked out his personal website and I was like, wow, this guys amazing lol.
I am honestly not sure myself what I want, job security? Something to fall back on if company goes under or merges with some corporate overlord and my position becomes reduntant? Amazon coming to RSA also makes me rather anxious, and as good as I have gotten at Group Sales, I do stress about things outside of my control. At the end of the day, as many millions per year I can bring in, I am still just employee #107 and easily replaced.
Then again, this could just an unfounded anxiety.

Have you considered having a discussion with the company with regards to the hours? They might be willing to adjust your time + an increase to keep you on. Not sure how you will be able to study with those hours.

It's nuts that people find this fine. Is this directly improving your salary at all? If not cut back you are a human not a job.


A guy I knew became a software QA after being in Sales and ending up doing a QA stint for a bit. So it's not impossible. QA is another avenue that can get you into Software Engineering, it's a bit of studying but you can get the ISTQB, not sure if that's your thing though.


They are right but fundamentally the truth of the matter is as someone without the educational background you need to start building a portfolio (usually github), hell the same advice applies to anyone in this industry (something I need to take seriously). I think there's a fundamental mindset you have to change here, it's not learning it's doing. I've seen the approach of learning via courses etc. and it doesn't get you used to actually creating. I think learning the principles of software engineering (patterns, clean code, devops etc.) are important as well as some of the more academic aspects like Big O and data structures etc. but to build is what will develop real skill and tenacity, it will also show you whether you like this at all and if you don't, don't do it.

The job market is not exactly great for non-graduates. I would also warn that to start a new career you will go down to the entry level but you should be roughly back to where you are now by about 3 years but it's tricky to get the foot in the door.

That is true, officially my hours are 8-5, same as most peoples. But the workload I've accrued, even in the first year of Group Sales, just is too much for that allocation of time. I am generally working from 6:30-18:00 or later even. And then weekends too, but I try really hard not to work after 2pm on sat and sundays only if I absolutely must. Between going onsite to meet people, trying to secure pricepoints/deals/rebates with distributors, and then still having to reply to everyone's emails when I get done, it really becomes a massive time sink. But one that does directly boost my income, but for the most part, its a personality trait, I hate leaving things unresolved. I feel often I can't switch off unless I have done everything I can.
I agree, honestly that is a big point I have no idea how to tackle. I would prefer to put in the work and eventually get a formal qualification. Right now I've just paid for a few Udemy Courses and am learning as I go. And the more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually know. Couple that with my current workrate, I am looking at many years before I even get off the ground.

Don't come to IT admin, IT tech, IT support....

Thanks, that is noted. We do some IT support/tech at my current company, but I usually hand it off to our techs to go onsite. It does sound like a nightmare though. "Sorry while I have you here, my x or y is not working either, can you please take a look" Usually its outlook, lol.

put your salary over hours and you realise you are working at R125 an hour that should be a wake up call you are working yourself into the ground. Would never work those hours for that salary. You need to up one and reduce the other.

That's actually funny, I never even thought about it like that. I always just looked at the ZAR amount I'm earning, never actually calulated and went, 'dang, this is my hourly rate'. Thanks for putting it into perspective.

I don't understand why you would give up sales for a developer/qa position. You have the skills and potential to earn much more than any IT guy.
I would say stick to sales and find another better paying job.
Regarding your education, I just want to tell u about this guy I knew who used to sell IT solutions(mostly payroll or e-commerce stuff) to companies, I asked him "how do u manage ? U literally have no IT knowledge" to which he said " the customer ALSO doesn't have any IT knowledge " .

I guess my fear is not having anything to fallback on. I might just be paranoid and nothing might go wrong. Before I go to bed at night I've been reading some forums and subreddits in RSA, and it does make me panic a bit. I'm reading about people with degrees not finding work, and I wonder, have I built up enough of a corporate client base to be able to move elsewhere safely. Or are these people actually just clients of our company, and I'm just another cog in the machine.

Also lol, that is very true. Many end users don't know anything at all. Can also have its downsides, when you spend days/weeks explaining to them how something works and how best it can be applied to their usecase, only for them to then Google it and find some weird site that sells it for cheaper. Then you have to explain that you've never heard of said site. I've always been honest though, and hoped that I come across as genuine and not some 'used car salesman' lol.

 

[RedTerror]

I highly doubt a sales guy will earn more than a software developer with similar experience.

I know several people who do earn more. It Depends on the company and the products and the revenue u are generating.

I think it depends on salary structure. Sales margins in IT are really small, especially so in group sales, so we rely a lot on vendors as well for rebates and price protection to even close deals.
A few of my highschool friends are developers, and their salaries are all around mine or a bit more.

I'm in the exact same position (although I'm 40). Losing my devotion to sales but I need the income and I don't see myself working anywhere else as I don't have any additional skills. Guess I'll have to stick it out and possibly look at moving departments if the opportunity arises.

Interesting, yeah I feel the same. I just keep hoping I can be a late bloomer success story - lol.

Figure out what role you want in 5 years then look at job sites for what the requirements are for that role then work at getting those qualifications and experience.

Not 100% sure, hoping to have at least a degree by then. Perhaps emigrate long term? Or work for an overseas company locally.

 

[Snyper564]

Hi all, apologies for the delay. As you can most likely guess lol, I don't have much free time.

That is 100% true, I am so far behind the curve, I was teaching myself from HTML/CSS and found a YouTuber in RSA named Shaun Roselt, checked out his personal website and I was like, wow, this guys amazing lol.
I am honestly not sure myself what I want, job security? Something to fall back on if company goes under or merges with some corporate overlord and my position becomes reduntant? Amazon coming to RSA also makes me rather anxious, and as good as I have gotten at Group Sales, I do stress about things outside of my control. At the end of the day, as many millions per year I can bring in, I am still just employee #107 and easily replaced.
Then again, this could just an unfounded anxiety.


That is true, officially my hours are 8-5, same as most peoples. But the workload I've accrued, even in the first year of Group Sales, just is too much for that allocation of time. I am generally working from 6:30-18:00 or later even. And then weekends too, but I try really hard not to work after 2pm on sat and sundays only if I absolutely must. Between going onsite to meet people, trying to secure pricepoints/deals/rebates with distributors, and then still having to reply to everyone's emails when I get done, it really becomes a massive time sink. But one that does directly boost my income, but for the most part, its a personality trait, I hate leaving things unresolved. I feel often I can't switch off unless I have done everything I can.
I agree, honestly that is a big point I have no idea how to tackle. I would prefer to put in the work and eventually get a formal qualification. Right now I've just paid for a few Udemy Courses and am learning as I go. And the more I learn, the more I realize how little I actually know. Couple that with my current workrate, I am looking at many years before I even get off the ground.

Thanks, that is noted. We do some IT support/tech at my current company, but I usually hand it off to our techs to go onsite. It does sound like a nightmare though. "Sorry while I have you here, my x or y is not working either, can you please take a look" Usually its outlook, lol.

That's actually funny, I never even thought about it like that. I always just looked at the ZAR amount I'm earning, never actually calulated and went, 'dang, this is my hourly rate'. Thanks for putting it into perspective.

I guess my fear is not having anything to fallback on. I might just be paranoid and nothing might go wrong. Before I go to bed at night I've been reading some forums and subreddits in RSA, and it does make me panic a bit. I'm reading about people with degrees not finding work, and I wonder, have I built up enough of a corporate client base to be able to move elsewhere safely. Or are these people actually just clients of our company, and I'm just another cog in the machine.

Also lol, that is very true. Many end users don't know anything at all. Can also have its downsides, when you spend days/weeks explaining to them how something works and how best it can be applied to their usecase, only for them to then Google it and find some weird site that sells it for cheaper. Then you have to explain that you've never heard of said site. I've always been honest though, and hoped that I come across as genuine and not some 'used car salesman' lol.

Yeah the hourly rate really puts things in perspective. I don't mind working a bit more but pay me more!

 

[axsis]

A few of my highschool friends are developers, and their salaries are all around mine or a bit more.

I'm usually doing 220-240 hours a month

on average 30-35k per month.

I worked my way up over 9 years

Your friends are either underpaid, stuck in a website gig or lying.

9 years in Software Dev would make you senior at the very least and maybe at a tech/team lead level if you have the aptitude. I don't know anyone at that level earning less than me (7 years experience) and I'm earning a fair chunk over your salary.

Even if we consider that your take home and theirs are the same, you are working 1.3x more than them for the same renumeration.

I think you need to discuss with your work your hours and renumeration. Your work is not your life.

 

[TelkomUseless]

[COLOR=var(--text-light)] anything to fallback on. I might just be paranoid and nothing might go wrong. Before I go to bed at night I've been reading some forums and subreddits in RSA, and it does make me panic a bit. I'm reading about people with degrees not finding work, and I wonder, have I built up enough of a corporate client base to be able to move elsewhere safely. Or are these people actually just clients of our company, and I'm just another cog in the machine.[/COLOR]

Don't stress about the american job issues on reddit. It's not a reflection on us...

And I agree , with sales you can make millions more than us IT people ....

 

[Jet-Fighter7700]

Your work is not your life.

everything gets downsized, but the work.
also were not Japan or East asia where people work till they drop dead, I think they call it Karoshi or 996 culture.

 

[Bismuth]

I have read some posts in the thread, and scanned through most. But what stood out for my, rather refine/improve your skill set in your current role, than move to a completely different one where you will essentially be starting over.

Although, you can make a move at 31, if you are doing well at your current role, rather keep at it.

I have bounced around in my career, and only stabilised in the last 4 years. I have finally found a niche I enjoy, and am earning more than I ever have, so no complaints there. But, in my current role, am rather working on refining/improving the skills relevant to it, than again looking for something else. Especially considering I am a couple of decades older than you.