Sounds sensible!
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Cell C's cap reset policy and network overloading
- Thread starter ajax
- Start date
Sounds sensible!
RavenXV
Member
Roll Over or Not to Roll Over
I trust the following will inform Cell C Clients of their rights:
All Prepaid airtime Vouchers / Data Bundles are to be made valid for three years and all amounts to be redeemed to the FULL VALUE to the Customer/Client. The Amount Paid for the Pre-Paid Data Bundles is to be kept in trust by the Mobile Operator and remains the property of the Customer/Client until he/she has made FULL use of it within the three year period. - For those who purchased the Pre-paid pack, there is no contract agreement signed with Cell C, so the Consumer Protection Act applies to the Bundles loaded as of the 1st of April 2011
See: Consumer Protection Act 68 of 2008 - Part H - Right to fair value, good quality and safety - Prepaid certificates, credits and vouchers - Section 63. subsection (1) & (2)
Cell C to date, has made no effort to amend their Terms & Conditions Accordingly, or to make any effort to inform Cell C Clients of their rights WRT the new Act, and this conduct of Cell C is in contravention of the Act.
I trust the following will inform Cell C Clients of their rights:
All Prepaid airtime Vouchers / Data Bundles are to be made valid for three years and all amounts to be redeemed to the FULL VALUE to the Customer/Client. The Amount Paid for the Pre-Paid Data Bundles is to be kept in trust by the Mobile Operator and remains the property of the Customer/Client until he/she has made FULL use of it within the three year period. - For those who purchased the Pre-paid pack, there is no contract agreement signed with Cell C, so the Consumer Protection Act applies to the Bundles loaded as of the 1st of April 2011
See: Consumer Protection Act 68 of 2008 - Part H - Right to fair value, good quality and safety - Prepaid certificates, credits and vouchers - Section 63. subsection (1) & (2)
Cell C to date, has made no effort to amend their Terms & Conditions Accordingly, or to make any effort to inform Cell C Clients of their rights WRT the new Act, and this conduct of Cell C is in contravention of the Act.
RavenXV
Member
Not actually a "Network Overload" but an actual fault
WRT the "Network Overload" experienced on and before the 1st April, I have been reliably informed, that their was a serious Network fault that developed over a number of days in the Jo'burg area, and also a Cell C Server issue at the main link to Cell C's Internet Service Provider Connection, and as all of Cell C's Data IP Traffic routes through Jo'burg regardless of where you are, this will have affected all Data Users to various degrees. And Cell C confirmed by way of a uninformative post on their Facebook Page that is was only attended to on the 31st of March 2011
WRT the "Network Overload" experienced on and before the 1st April, I have been reliably informed, that their was a serious Network fault that developed over a number of days in the Jo'burg area, and also a Cell C Server issue at the main link to Cell C's Internet Service Provider Connection, and as all of Cell C's Data IP Traffic routes through Jo'burg regardless of where you are, this will have affected all Data Users to various degrees. And Cell C confirmed by way of a uninformative post on their Facebook Page that is was only attended to on the 31st of March 2011
RavenXV
Member
Some Questions for Cell C to answer, that will assist in laying blame or not, as the case may be, to a "Network Overload"
1) What size Data Pipe does Cell C have access to? (My inside source says that it is considered "unlimited")
2) Will the Cell C Data Clients ever experience the "Fair Use Policy" WRT Throttling, and if so at what point will this occur? (My inside source says that there will never be enough subscribers / data clients connected to the Cell C Network for this to take effect)
3) What is the maximum amount of Data Connections that a Mast Cluster can accept before the "Fair Use Policy" takes effect ? (Cell C Statement : If very high usage happens regularly, Cell C WILL NOTIFY YOU. In cases of high usage Cell C reserves the right to..., reduce the speed of your connection, suspend your service temporarily and/or possibly close your account.) Please Note: No Data Client has received such notification to date.
4) Why are Data Speeds erratic for Cell C Data Clients issued with Retail Sim Cards, and not for Cell C Employees issued with Company Issued Sim Cards, who require unrestricted access to Cell C's Network to fulfill their Duties? (My inside source confirms that arbitrary restrictions are imposed on retail Sim Card Registrations on the IT System Network - Company Issued 128k Black Sim Cards have no such arbitrary restrictions)
1) What size Data Pipe does Cell C have access to? (My inside source says that it is considered "unlimited")
2) Will the Cell C Data Clients ever experience the "Fair Use Policy" WRT Throttling, and if so at what point will this occur? (My inside source says that there will never be enough subscribers / data clients connected to the Cell C Network for this to take effect)
3) What is the maximum amount of Data Connections that a Mast Cluster can accept before the "Fair Use Policy" takes effect ? (Cell C Statement : If very high usage happens regularly, Cell C WILL NOTIFY YOU. In cases of high usage Cell C reserves the right to..., reduce the speed of your connection, suspend your service temporarily and/or possibly close your account.) Please Note: No Data Client has received such notification to date.
4) Why are Data Speeds erratic for Cell C Data Clients issued with Retail Sim Cards, and not for Cell C Employees issued with Company Issued Sim Cards, who require unrestricted access to Cell C's Network to fulfill their Duties? (My inside source confirms that arbitrary restrictions are imposed on retail Sim Card Registrations on the IT System Network - Company Issued 128k Black Sim Cards have no such arbitrary restrictions)
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ajax
Executive Member
That excuse, I suppose, will fly for now, but it's only 27 days until each user can independently verify that...
Sorry RavenXV, total rubbish... go take a look at the various posts in various threads on the subject... the issue was not only JHB, it was country-wide... CellC won't admit it, but they don't have the capacity to handle month-end "quickly-use-up-my-data" traffic, the traffic burst is just too big... simple and true! Nothing else!
Logistically the carry over system would be a nightmare for CellC as they now have to contend varying degrees of remaining bandwith of let's say a million users at the end of the month.
Its easier and more economical for them to just press one button and do a complete reset of everybody at one go.
If people want to be carried they would have to fork out more for data.
Its easier and more economical for them to just press one button and do a complete reset of everybody at one go.
If people want to be carried they would have to fork out more for data.
RavenXV
Member
@BGE, I concur with you. The Cell C Customer Operations Executive/s & Online Marketing Management Team/s appear to be all a bunch of Lying Sons Of Bitches (when dealing with the public and their Clients), but that is just my opinion born out by the lack of success at bringing closure to the vast amount of Consumer Complaints, and their ability to ignore persistent complainants. -
I am even of the opinion that the "LPR" member profile is as much of a con as the "Trevor" profile invented by the Obfuscating Marketing Department Employed by the Board Members of Cell C. - I have never known, in all of my professional life, a CEO that engages directly with the public at large, as it leaves the company wide open to Litigation.
However, the informant, who is an Independent Consultant to the Independent Internet Service Provider to Cell C through which Cell C connects it's Clients to the World Wide Web, did report on the Issue/s as are stated above. It did unfortunately occur at the end of this month, so would appear to have contributed to a "Network Overload".
Also please note this part, that you may have missed, that is included with the my Quoted Post you included in your reply:
The Network & Servers are more than capable of handling over 200 Million Clients permanently connected to the Internet & web based applications. The greatest amount of Data Usage & connected clients occurs on the 1st weekend of the month.
If Cell C would publish these independently verified stats, & provide answers to the above questions posted above, it would go a long way in informing the Clients of Cell C, and narrow down the Actual Issue.
However my main concern with regard to how & why, the All I.P. Cell C Data Network is showing signs of stress, is with ZTE China.
The Cell C Technicians who are well versed in the Siemens Equipment that Cell C is now replacing with the ZTE Equipment, are having a most extremely difficult time dealing with the difficult (and in my view completely inadequate & unprofessional), communication channels that the Executive Management of Cell C & ZTE China have set up.
I am even of the opinion that the "LPR" member profile is as much of a con as the "Trevor" profile invented by the Obfuscating Marketing Department Employed by the Board Members of Cell C. - I have never known, in all of my professional life, a CEO that engages directly with the public at large, as it leaves the company wide open to Litigation.
However, the informant, who is an Independent Consultant to the Independent Internet Service Provider to Cell C through which Cell C connects it's Clients to the World Wide Web, did report on the Issue/s as are stated above. It did unfortunately occur at the end of this month, so would appear to have contributed to a "Network Overload".
Also please note this part, that you may have missed, that is included with the my Quoted Post you included in your reply:
The Network & Servers are more than capable of handling over 200 Million Clients permanently connected to the Internet & web based applications. The greatest amount of Data Usage & connected clients occurs on the 1st weekend of the month.
If Cell C would publish these independently verified stats, & provide answers to the above questions posted above, it would go a long way in informing the Clients of Cell C, and narrow down the Actual Issue.
However my main concern with regard to how & why, the All I.P. Cell C Data Network is showing signs of stress, is with ZTE China.
The Cell C Technicians who are well versed in the Siemens Equipment that Cell C is now replacing with the ZTE Equipment, are having a most extremely difficult time dealing with the difficult (and in my view completely inadequate & unprofessional), communication channels that the Executive Management of Cell C & ZTE China have set up.
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RavenXV
Member
@ BOYAH
The carry over system wouldn't be a logistical nightmare, it is just an option that can be activated or deactivated on the Data IT System Software. - The Software handles it all with ease. Skype & VOIX (Voice over Internet Exchange) systems have absolutely no problems handling the Data/Cost of Billions of Subscribers World Wide, all on different Time Zones.
Your Data & Cost Usage is all stored on the USSD system, attributed & calculated to the Active Sim Card, individually.
And the South African Consumer Protection Act 68 of 2008 (which is very closely aligned to the EU Act), wouldn't enforce something that would be found to be detrimental to the Consumer, as that would be unconstitutional, both in the EU and here.
So the Onus will be on Cell C to adhere to the South African Consumer Protection Act 68 of 2008 without making it detrimental to the consumer.
The carry over system wouldn't be a logistical nightmare, it is just an option that can be activated or deactivated on the Data IT System Software. - The Software handles it all with ease. Skype & VOIX (Voice over Internet Exchange) systems have absolutely no problems handling the Data/Cost of Billions of Subscribers World Wide, all on different Time Zones.
Your Data & Cost Usage is all stored on the USSD system, attributed & calculated to the Active Sim Card, individually.
And the South African Consumer Protection Act 68 of 2008 (which is very closely aligned to the EU Act), wouldn't enforce something that would be found to be detrimental to the Consumer, as that would be unconstitutional, both in the EU and here.
So the Onus will be on Cell C to adhere to the South African Consumer Protection Act 68 of 2008 without making it detrimental to the consumer.
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kidnotorious
Active Member
I raised this issue with a CellC tech about a month ago and he said that changing month end bundle expiry is very much a management decision. Having raised a different set of issues with Voda techs, my impressions of network management / tech guys is;
a) They interpret tech from a theoretical perspective and don't understand usability. That is why they spend money on things like 41meg/sec when maybe all that money could be spent on fatter pipes. Our experience would be slower, but everyone seems to want low cost, not high burst speed which is too expensive to use
b) data provisioning. In theory, Cell C have sold you 60gig over a year at 5 cents/meg. They then need to provision data on their network. By not carrying over data they get away with not delivering the 60gig you paid for. They use less data on their backhaul, and this effectively increases their revenue per meg while decreasing their cost. The cost reduction is not a per meg cost, more that they save because underutilisation of bundles is less demand on the pipe, so they pipe they buy doesn't have to be as fat, and a thinner pipe costs less
a) They interpret tech from a theoretical perspective and don't understand usability. That is why they spend money on things like 41meg/sec when maybe all that money could be spent on fatter pipes. Our experience would be slower, but everyone seems to want low cost, not high burst speed which is too expensive to use
b) data provisioning. In theory, Cell C have sold you 60gig over a year at 5 cents/meg. They then need to provision data on their network. By not carrying over data they get away with not delivering the 60gig you paid for. They use less data on their backhaul, and this effectively increases their revenue per meg while decreasing their cost. The cost reduction is not a per meg cost, more that they save because underutilisation of bundles is less demand on the pipe, so they pipe they buy doesn't have to be as fat, and a thinner pipe costs less
RavenXV
Member
@kidnotorious
part b) above is exactly what I discussed with the inside source, at length... and well, Cell C has access to a very large pipe, considered unlimited, and there doesn't appear to be an "underutilisation" or backhaul saving. Without having access to the actual service agreement signed, it would still appear that Cell C has a fixed cost for the data pipe, regardless as to how little or how much data traffic passes through.
My inside source is an independent consultant to the Internet Service Provider to Cell C, who are the gateway to the World Wide Web for Cell C, based in Jo'burg - Cell C has no ISP Servers, neither does Cell C have any redundancy built-in to the whole Always On Data Network.
As I said before, there is provision for what would amount to 100 Million Mobile Data Modems / handset / Routers / Tablets always connected, always on, which should be raised to 200 Million when the ZTE China Network is fully established.
However, saying all this, - nothing that Cell C Reps have said in the recent past can explain the sudden drop-off in speeds that began in January this year, country wide. If I spoke mandarin, I might get some idea, and google translate doesn't pick up the nuances, so that's also a fail.
And as of the 1st April, if you buy a Data Pre-paid or Data Contract today, Cell C has to insure that ALL the Data Loaded and paid for monthly, is made available to the Client for the 3 year validity period, as explained in the Consumer Protection Act. - There is no ambiguity about it. All the Mobile Operators have been aware of this provision in the Act for years now, so there can be no excuses by them. - This Non-Rollover & Limited Rollover garbage must come to an end.
The Act originally made for a 5 year period, but through consultation with all affected parties, this was reduced to 3 years. So once again ALL Mobile Operators & Internet Service Providers cannot claim ignorance.
And just to make everyone aware, when the real 4G Networks & ADSL High speed equivalent fixed fibre Networks come online, all voice / sms / mms carriers will be disposed of, and the old TCP/IP Protocols are also to be replaced - So all your communication will be via data in the very near future. Skype & VOIX will soon only be able to work on a 4G Network, they already no longer support EDGE.GPRS & Standard 3G. - Also, there are cars being assembled in this country being fitted with iDrive that require an always on High Speed Internet Data Connection, for the vehicle to be driven safely with all safety & self-drive features active.
part b) above is exactly what I discussed with the inside source, at length... and well, Cell C has access to a very large pipe, considered unlimited, and there doesn't appear to be an "underutilisation" or backhaul saving. Without having access to the actual service agreement signed, it would still appear that Cell C has a fixed cost for the data pipe, regardless as to how little or how much data traffic passes through.
My inside source is an independent consultant to the Internet Service Provider to Cell C, who are the gateway to the World Wide Web for Cell C, based in Jo'burg - Cell C has no ISP Servers, neither does Cell C have any redundancy built-in to the whole Always On Data Network.
As I said before, there is provision for what would amount to 100 Million Mobile Data Modems / handset / Routers / Tablets always connected, always on, which should be raised to 200 Million when the ZTE China Network is fully established.
However, saying all this, - nothing that Cell C Reps have said in the recent past can explain the sudden drop-off in speeds that began in January this year, country wide. If I spoke mandarin, I might get some idea, and google translate doesn't pick up the nuances, so that's also a fail.
And as of the 1st April, if you buy a Data Pre-paid or Data Contract today, Cell C has to insure that ALL the Data Loaded and paid for monthly, is made available to the Client for the 3 year validity period, as explained in the Consumer Protection Act. - There is no ambiguity about it. All the Mobile Operators have been aware of this provision in the Act for years now, so there can be no excuses by them. - This Non-Rollover & Limited Rollover garbage must come to an end.
The Act originally made for a 5 year period, but through consultation with all affected parties, this was reduced to 3 years. So once again ALL Mobile Operators & Internet Service Providers cannot claim ignorance.
And just to make everyone aware, when the real 4G Networks & ADSL High speed equivalent fixed fibre Networks come online, all voice / sms / mms carriers will be disposed of, and the old TCP/IP Protocols are also to be replaced - So all your communication will be via data in the very near future. Skype & VOIX will soon only be able to work on a 4G Network, they already no longer support EDGE.GPRS & Standard 3G. - Also, there are cars being assembled in this country being fitted with iDrive that require an always on High Speed Internet Data Connection, for the vehicle to be driven safely with all safety & self-drive features active.
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Jonno2343
Well-Known Member
Ok, so what kind of action can we take here? Surely if they cancel your cap at the end of a month they're breaking the law?