CEO Friday: Why we don’t hire .NET programmers

Clients want mainstream platforms, especially corporates. They've all been burnt in the past at some point by becoming reliant on key applications that turn out to have been developed by some guy who was a one man genius in perl or lisp or something and now that he's emigrated/retired/dead they find that either there's nobody with the skills to leverage their old code or the skills are rare and very expensive. The more mainstream your platform, the more supportable and future proof it will be, and the simpler your life will be when you have to maintain the code in two years time.

An article like this that blithely condemns anyone or anything to do with .NET is just plain stupid and speaks volumes about the author's prejudices and lack of insight into both the .NET platform and the development environment in general. It's the kind of dogmatic garbage that makes for an eye-catching article and not much more. McDonalds is one of the most successful companies in the world precisely because it is so standardized, sytematized and simple to operate - it produces results, efficiently, consistently and predictably. Why are these bad things in a development environment? They are exactly what we should be aspiring to as commercial developers.

I've seen a huge amount of projects go south because, for example, the client wants a simple online order/invoice system that can be banged out in ASP.NET in two days, but some self opinionated so-called hotshot developer decides the project must be some multi-tiered overcomplicated system with an Adobe AIR front end and a backend processing system in C++ and with data held in some convoluted XML format on a nosql distributable database, because "these are the best tools for the job". Six months later the client still doesn't have a working solution, but never mind because the interface is beautiful and the data model is a work of art.

Completely agree. This author, to put it politely, is an idiot. I hope he never uses object orientation or design patterns since those ideas fall into precisely the same trap - they are designed to enable solutions to be churned out more quickly, relying on the idea that a lot of solutions comprise similar components, like a Presenter, or a Repository. This leads to easier development, easier unit testing, faster development, easier maintenance and likely lower costs and risk for everyone involved. Its pretty much the same with .Net itself - it can allow you to do more in a short space of time precisely because MS had a look at what most people do, and realized it could speed these things up.

I'll bet he gets all of his coders to code in vi or vim because its "better" the old fashioned way.
 
I think that what the article is trying to convey is, that it doesn't say that .net is bad, but they want someone who knows how things are pieced together at a lower level...someone who can think out of the box and not only depend on the tools within .net...that's all.

They want someone with a broader understand, an understanding preferably outside of the .net world coupled with a .net understanding.

I think so too. Personally the only time I drag/drop controls in VS.NET is when I do Windows Applications and labels/groupbox/button and some layout work. Rest of the time I do everything in code. I think the ONLY time I EVER used data adapter/dataset drag-a-drop was when I first used VS.NET back in 2003. Coming from a Classic ASP environment the whole datatable/adapter/dataset concept was foreign to me and it frustrated me I couldn't do the most basic of things until I dug in deeper and eventually decided these drag-a-drop tools are ****ty.
 
I think so too. Personally the only time I drag/drop controls in VS.NET is when I do Windows Applications and labels/groupbox/button and some layout work. Rest of the time I do everything in code. I think the ONLY time I EVER used data adapter/dataset drag-a-drop was when I first used VS.NET back in 2003. Coming from a Classic ASP environment the whole datatable/adapter/dataset concept was foreign to me and it frustrated me I couldn't do the most basic of things until I dug in deeper and eventually decided these drag-a-drop tools are ****ty.
Good point.

I had to use RAD controls to complete a technical test. First time since 2002 that I've done so (visual controls aside). Hated it.
 
If anyone uses drag and drop for anything other than GUI elements they are not a programmer. Using the designer in WinForms is useful because otherwise the code is autogenerated on compile which destroys any changes you made.

I did classic ASP and ASP.Net for months on end, never seeing the designer at all. So for that its not necessary.
 
Cant agree more...

I would love to see what the coding environment will be like in 5 years time, things changes so quickly I wonder who and what will keep up.

Thats what people said 10 years ago when .NET started coming out..
 
Thats what people said 10 years ago when .NET started coming out..

that is true... that statement didnt only apply to .net though. In 5 years time we might have a healthy conversation regarding another popular x vs y language/framework etc... as long as everything evolves, thing will be just fine :D
 
I think so too. Personally the only time I drag/drop controls in VS.NET is when I do Windows Applications and labels/groupbox/button and some layout work. Rest of the time I do everything in code. I think the ONLY time I EVER used data adapter/dataset drag-a-drop was when I first used VS.NET back in 2003. Coming from a Classic ASP environment the whole datatable/adapter/dataset concept was foreign to me and it frustrated me I couldn't do the most basic of things until I dug in deeper and eventually decided these drag-a-drop tools are ****ty.

I've also never gotten used to the whole connection/data adapter/dataset garbage although it has improved over time.

The Entity Framework is pretty usefull and I wont be using anything else to connect to DB's from VS anymore.
 
I'm so glad I don't work for this idiot and his little band of wannabe "knife fighters" and punchdrunk mousketeers.

The fact is that real developers use the right tool for the job and sometimes that is one of the .NET languages.

As someone who has coded Java, C, C++ (Unix and Windows and a tiny bit of embedded), Delphi, PHP and C# I like to think I'm experienced enough to have an opinion.

For cross platform server stuff Java is a damn good tool and c/c++ will do as well if you don't mind a shortage of skilled developers. For rapid application development Windows desktop stuff there is no alternative to .NET C# for getting code written quickly. If you want to do embedded development C and ASM are your finely honed instruments. Device driver stuff C/C++ and ASM will allow you to do the low level stuff you need. Web development, well, I'm not really a web developer so I don't feel qualified to comment on that.
 
Gy-gy :)) Article is a total cr@p of diletant. ".NET" is not a cent less serious than any Java/LISP/C++/whatever. Just the fact that smth made VERY EASY in .NET doesn't mean it's a toy - it's just EASY TOOL. But statement "make a 1.7 oz burger, you simply can’t" is a really foolish blah-blah. I wrote on .NET a lot of stuff, from stupid "one-form-converter" till banking system - just imagine how many different stuff I had to use! EVERYTHING were in .NET; So that "David Barrett" is just an "office-ass", spending somebody's money and our time.
 
Gy-gy :)) Article is a total cr@p of diletant. ".NET" is not a cent less serious than any Java/LISP/C++/whatever. Just the fact that smth made VERY EASY in .NET doesn't mean it's a toy - it's just EASY TOOL. But statement "make a 1.7 oz burger, you simply can’t" is a really foolish blah-blah. I wrote on .NET a lot of stuff, from stupid "one-form-converter" till banking system - just imagine how many different stuff I had to use! EVERYTHING were in .NET; So that "David Barrett" is just an "office-ass", spending somebody's money and our time.

Based on your grammar and punctuation I can assume you use .NET a lot?
 
2 w1z4rd: if punctuation is a biggest thing you can discover, then I understand why original rubbish was very interesting to you. :)
 
I also lolled... if you're looking for someone to make burgers for McDonalds then a McDonalds burger man is exactly what you want... not someone who develops patties from a squirrel.

Since most of the systems out there are McDonalds, then .Net is not so bad after all. I think the analogy is wrong tbh, the problem is not .Net or the fact that it's popular, it's the number of coders out there who just aren't passionate about computing full stop. That's a different issue. And to blame .Net for the number of coders who have learned to code in a short time without having proper intuition simply becuase .Net is easier is off the mark too.

The rest are few and far between, many are the numbers in the .Net fold - both good and bad. But that's nothing to do with .Net and everything to do with Windows popularity. Also nothing to do with quality of programmers, you just have to be picky because as the author said, it's more personality and general interest in computing that you're after first and foremost... .Net or otherwise.
 
What a great read... and it answers many things I've noticed around .Net. Thanks for posting this. :)
 
Damn MS for creating tools that help decrease the turn-around time and in-turn, increase productivity.
Plus - and I know I am very anal about this - he called it Windows Mobile 7. That is wrong. If he can't get a simple detail correct in the industry that he is recruiting in then I lose respect.
 
Damn MS for creating tools that help decrease the turn-around time and in-turn, increase productivity.
Plus - and I know I am very anal about this - he called it Windows Mobile 7. That is wrong. If he can't get a simple detail correct in the industry that he is recruiting in then I lose respect.
:)
Yep, being a fanboi of anything just lowers your credibility and reduces your outlook (sorry to the Thunderbird fanbois who were offended by that statement :D ).

You can still be passionate about computing and good at .Net... any logical person can figure that out.
 
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