f0xZA
Well-Known Member
Then again , on a good day with deadly brew playing my rogue is quite rewarding :>
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- Thread starter Mystique
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Yeah I have a mage, but it's...lacking something. I'm not sure what exactly. Think it's that whole clothie thing. I like running around in real armour and using a sword instead of a dress and some ninny wand. I really miss my old tauren hunter sometimes. Best of both worlds. I think I just might drop my Goblin Warlock plans and go Undead Hunter in the next xpac. So many choices.
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your kiding me right? Blizzard have done a fabulas job balancing boss encounters so it benefits both melee and range for diff reasons, Sure you might enjoy playing a range more then a melee, But they do not have a advantage over anything.
and also @ Pornolio: You canot be serious aswell with saying hybrid dps gets crushed by "pure" dps . If you have played this game 4 years you would also know about balance and you would also know that " pure" is a old TBC and vanilla word. i'm a ret pala and on a patchwerk type fight i will be top 3 dps, i would even go as far to say hunters need a buff because our hunters canot compete in dps, if u dont believe me check out this here http://www.worldoflogs.com/ and have a browes. hunters are struggling to top meters. Maybe your topping the meter where ever you play, just means the rest aint doing as good as they can.
*edit* as a extra bonus here is our festergut log for last wednesday http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/du7tj2sc0l4ksfal/sum/damageDone/?s=8264&e=8539 look where the hunters are.
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Tinuva
The Magician
Bla Bla Bla Bla....
I have topped meters with all of the following classes:
Rogue
Warrior
Shaman
Druid
Hunter
Priest
Paladin
I might not have all of them now at 80, but at some point in WoW I played that class at max level be it classic or tbc, and truly, its not the class that gets you to the top. It is the player that gets you to the top, and especially in WoW, the amount of time and effort you put into your toon.
I can say this too, I have been at fights where hunters are scary at the amount of dps they push outh, other times warlocks scared me, then there were the times another paladin or rogue did scary dps, or even lately seen a DK or 2 doing it.
Any class can top the meter, it all depends on the type of fight, and the most importantly, the player behind the toon!
I have topped meters with all of the following classes:
Rogue
Warrior
Shaman
Druid
Hunter
Priest
Paladin
I might not have all of them now at 80, but at some point in WoW I played that class at max level be it classic or tbc, and truly, its not the class that gets you to the top. It is the player that gets you to the top, and especially in WoW, the amount of time and effort you put into your toon.
I can say this too, I have been at fights where hunters are scary at the amount of dps they push outh, other times warlocks scared me, then there were the times another paladin or rogue did scary dps, or even lately seen a DK or 2 doing it.
Any class can top the meter, it all depends on the type of fight, and the most importantly, the player behind the toon!
Pornolio
Expert Member
OK... let me start off by firstly saying... I can totally understand where and why your hunters are sitting where they are on the meters. I had a look @ their setups and yes, I totally believe you that they would NEVER top dps meters in those builds / setups.
I am sorry but I am not convinced a Hybrid is equal in terms of DPS vs say a pure DPS class where its a stationary fight like Patchwerk. There was even stated in numerous blue posts there is 5% advantage in terms of damage output when it comes to hybrid vs pure class.
I can also supply links, but its kinda pointless, it depends on who posts to what sites... eg. I might as well link you http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dtb/all/9/0/3
Every single fight has a pure dps class no1. It all depends on the encounter and the roles you allocate your players.
You pretty much said it in your own words.... "Maybe your topping the meter where ever you play, just means the rest aint doing as good as they can."
I am sorry but I am not convinced a Hybrid is equal in terms of DPS vs say a pure DPS class where its a stationary fight like Patchwerk. There was even stated in numerous blue posts there is 5% advantage in terms of damage output when it comes to hybrid vs pure class.
I can also supply links, but its kinda pointless, it depends on who posts to what sites... eg. I might as well link you http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dtb/all/9/0/3
Every single fight has a pure dps class no1. It all depends on the encounter and the roles you allocate your players.
You pretty much said it in your own words.... "Maybe your topping the meter where ever you play, just means the rest aint doing as good as they can."
QFT
No, I'm not. Try running ICC 10man with zero ranged, and watch your whole raid puke their guts out on Festergut every time. One example. Wasting precious seconds running to oozes on Putricide is another. No ranged to kite Saurfang adds is another. No caster dps on Deathwhisper's physical immunes is another. Ranged tanking Keleseth is another. Etc, etc, etc. It's not a whole lot of fun, and quite frustrating to me as melee dps, since there's nothing i can do to alleviate the problem bar dump my DK and raid on my mage (ugh). You need ranged. You can't do ICC without them, the fights are specifically built to require them.
Also FYI, Blizzard have stated that their intent is that, given equivalent gear and skill, a pure dps class will outdps a hybrid in the majority of situations.
My own observations are that this is true. The hunters, mages and rogues in our guild are all on top (warlocks seem to need some help), and only the occasional hybrid dps (usually outgeared) manages to outdo them. Particularly rogues. They're so far ahead of the rest it's not even funny.
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Why the obsession with topping dps ?
The hybrid classes generally also bring other advantages to the raid such as as buffs, resistances, aura's etc.
If you want to dps, roll whichever class is fun for you to play. melee or ranged or hybrid. Spec prot with your warrior and announce that like to dps with your shield. Whatever floats your boat. Its a game
The hybrid classes generally also bring other advantages to the raid such as as buffs, resistances, aura's etc.
If you want to dps, roll whichever class is fun for you to play. melee or ranged or hybrid. Spec prot with your warrior and announce that like to dps with your shield. Whatever floats your boat. Its a game
Because bringing subpar dps to a number of ICC fights means wiping. You can get by with less on some fights, but there are a few encounters where you simply can't afford to be too far behind. For the most part, the difference between hybrid and pure isn't huge enough to warrant stacking pure, but I suspect that when heroic modes become available it will.
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I rather hope heroic modes will require more than just more dps. The game will become incredibly boring if all it was about was pushing out maximum dps without overaggroing the tank/tanks. Boss encounters, especially 25man content, should force guilds to bring variety to the encounter. For me, this is what WoW is. All classes bring something to the fight which is unique to them. While not making the encounter impossible without them, the encounter should be damn difficult without them.
How boring would it become if a 25 man raid consisted of 3 or 4 tanks, 3 or 4 healers and the rest hunters or whatever is the flavour.
Of course dps is important, but in my view it is too often given prominence at the expense of the important skill of "tactical awareness". Knowing that when the ground changes colour underneath you, that this could be a bad thing. The amount of times I have seen the dude who is top of the dps is lying dead with the boss at 50%, is ridiculous.
I believe the more commonly known WoW term is called 'Situational Awareness'... PVP actually teaches it
d3th_n1gG4
Expert Member
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I believe the more commonly known WoW term is called 'Situational Awareness'... PVP actually teaches it
We try enforce our dps have either a healing or tanking char to teach them this, as in 10 man raiding the loss of 1 dps member due to stupidity is roughly 20% of your total damage down the toilet
Long gone are the days of delegating duties to dps, instead of just nuking.
Hunters were crucial to kite elite mobs or even bosses, Priests had to MC mobs, Mages were on permanent sheep duty.
Rogues had to sap humanoids to keep them at bay or tank casters. Everyone's a hero these days so nothing matters.
TofuMofu
Honorary Master
So as u can see yourself a mage and a rogue is always ontop in those nr's u sent me right? is it because they are pure dps or is it because simply that specific class is doing a hell of alot of dps, if your statment is true, then hybrids should NEVER show up on those lists, but they do show up on them above lots of others and why dont u just link me your char name and server so i can check your main out and we can discuss.
i did not say a hybrid out dps's every other class on every fight. But your saying "pure" always out dpses hybrids making your statement false.
f0xZA
Well-Known Member
Check again, Pure dps classes are on top every fight. One fight where a feral managed second.
Also , he has posted his armory before.
Pornolio
Expert Member
The point I was trying to make, if you look at the general stats of eg. that particular site, you will notice there is a "general" re-occurance of specific classes being in the top spots. Is it a co-incidence that they are all pure dps classes? I think not. It does not mean a Hybrid will NEVER top the meters.... Skurm said it best in his wording :
"Also FYI, Blizzard have stated that their intent is that, given equivalent gear and skill, a pure dps class will outdps a hybrid in the majority of situations." Note the word majority... And I completely agree with that... sure there is the odd encounter where certain hybrid classes will excell, but just because its one or two encounters, does not give it the upperhand in general situations does it ? Situations like Anube TOC 25, Ulduar XT-deconstructor, Freya hardmode etc etc comes to mind. Like I said earlier, just because your hunters are down on the list, doesnt mean they are on par with hybrids... it just means they need to fix their stuff and start to read up on hunter information online ... I am not going to rant and criticise your hunters builds and choice in gear, because I dont think this is the place to do it... If you dont believe me when I tell you there is horrendous mistakes and setups in their gear + glyphs... pls PM me... I will gladly give you my armory link and character details if you still believe I am talking utter garbage...
as my main a ret pala,i bring not only on par dps then any other dps but i also bring invaluble buffs to the raid, we are no longer buff bots, so what did blizzard change? the giving random classes dif types of buffs to bring to the raid, each buff can be given to the raid by more then one class making class balance more equal, if you reada bout cataclysim blizzard is removing the whole idea of Pure. and this is my point , there was most def a time where pure classes excelled in their roll over other classes, but thats in the past and its not that way anymore. and i dont know why u metioning those specific encounters? Anub a pala will pwn nearly everysingle dps apart froma fury warrior maybe on that fight, both hybrid classes. with adds coming and cleaving our dps sky rockets. combat rogues might have a chance to catch up there because of bladeflurry but trust me when it comes to more then 1 mob at a time focus a pala is gonna leave any hunter in the dust. Every encounter is dif and There are no encounters that benefit only 1 type of class.
My point i am making is, if "pure" dps brings the same buffs to the raid then hybrids.. why would u bother taking one to the raids? just take the "pure" classes instead. the only buff i have that a "pure" class canot bring is 10 % kings but they can get 8 % There is no such thing as "pure" dps, i have to spend just as many emblems of frost on my dps gear and enchants and time then u have to on your gear. i pay the same amount of money for the game each month. i have to kill the same bosses as you do. and now u want to tell me they Gimp my dps because.. its not "pure" get real, my Class might be able to heal and tank. but it will take 3 times the gear grind to get those items to do so, i might as well just lvl 3 dif classes and gear them seperatly.
I never said u talk utter garbage, its your opinion and i respect your opinion, and i so also hope u respect my opinion , thats why these forums excist to express oneself. Sure Pm me your char details, i would love to hear your opinion about why u think our hunters are lower on dps , not because i want to argue with you but because i would like to hear what u have to say about it, maybe i can give u a reason they are glyphed/specced that way.
i have a rogue a mage a pala a druid a shammy a warrior( low experience iwth it) and a DK all i have played in each possible spec. and i tank, i heal and i dps. i have played the game since beta launch and i come from experience say that class balance is the main priority for blizzard, thats why so many changes are happening in cata. u will not be able to say X class is pure and "supposed" to out dps Y class for being hybrid. those are old terms people have stuck in their heads and refuse to let go of.
My point i am making is, if "pure" dps brings the same buffs to the raid then hybrids.. why would u bother taking one to the raids? just take the "pure" classes instead. the only buff i have that a "pure" class canot bring is 10 % kings but they can get 8 % There is no such thing as "pure" dps, i have to spend just as many emblems of frost on my dps gear and enchants and time then u have to on your gear. i pay the same amount of money for the game each month. i have to kill the same bosses as you do. and now u want to tell me they Gimp my dps because.. its not "pure" get real, my Class might be able to heal and tank. but it will take 3 times the gear grind to get those items to do so, i might as well just lvl 3 dif classes and gear them seperatly.
I never said u talk utter garbage, its your opinion and i respect your opinion, and i so also hope u respect my opinion , thats why these forums excist to express oneself. Sure Pm me your char details, i would love to hear your opinion about why u think our hunters are lower on dps , not because i want to argue with you but because i would like to hear what u have to say about it, maybe i can give u a reason they are glyphed/specced that way.
i have a rogue a mage a pala a druid a shammy a warrior( low experience iwth it) and a DK all i have played in each possible spec. and i tank, i heal and i dps. i have played the game since beta launch and i come from experience say that class balance is the main priority for blizzard, thats why so many changes are happening in cata. u will not be able to say X class is pure and "supposed" to out dps Y class for being hybrid. those are old terms people have stuck in their heads and refuse to let go of.