Coffin assault trial

airborne said:
Well these 2 guys got their comeuppance.

There's a lesson to be learnt, don't play games with other peoples lives and then claim afterwards you were just joking, eeish new meaning given to getting bitten on the ass.
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Airborne members are seldom as jelly wrist retarded as this. They'll eject you from their brotherhood chop-chop.
 
#CoffinAssault: Mlotshwa will get RDP house, cow for ritual cleansing

Middelburg - The Mpumalanga government will allocate farmworker Victor Mlotshwa a government house and slaughter a cow at his new home to ritually cleanse him after he was assaulted and shoved into a coffin by two white men, provincial MEC for Human Settlements Speedy Mashilo said on Friday.

"As the Human Settlements MEC who has been given a job of serving the people by the Premier [David Mabuza], I will make sure that I do that job. We will invite all of you and slaughter a cow to cleanse him," said Mashilo, this after Willem Oosthuizen and Theo Martins Jackson were sentenced to 11 years and 14 years imprisonment respectively by Judge Sheila Mphahlele in the Middelburg High Court.

Mashilo, who is also the Nkangala regional chairman of the African National Congress (ANC), made the announcement while addressing dozens of ANC members outside the high court sitting at the Middelburg Magistrate’s Court.
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More at: https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-af...t-rdp-house-cow-for-ritual-cleansing-11746186
 
africa - continuously staying behind with stupid rituals and bullshyte :rolleyes:
 
You guys really don't see how putting someone into a coffin, while verbally threatening to kill them isn't a sign of intent, and a visible display of acting on that intent? That's all that's required for attempted murder in South Africa.

A person is guilty of attempting to commit a crime if, intending to commit that crime, he/she unlawfully engages in conduct that is not merely preparatory but has reached at least commencement of the execution of the intended crime
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The judge took 4 hours to review the evidence and explain the nuances of the judgement, yet people here refute it with a couple of sentences framed by ad-hominem attacks. Wow. What law firms do you work for, so the rest of us can hire your great legal minds?
 
Random717 said:
You guys really don't see how putting someone into a coffin, while verbally threatening to kill them isn't a sign of intent, and a visible display of acting on that intent? That's all that's required for attempted murder in South Africa.



The judge took 4 hours to review the evidence and explain the nuances of the judgement, yet people here refute it with a couple of sentences framed by ad-hominem attacks. Wow. What law firms do you work for, so the rest of us can hire your great legal minds?
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They scared him and assaulted him. These charges I'm fine with but not attempted murder. Because they didn't intent to kill him. There's no intervention which stopped a murder, there is no harm done which indicates they intended to kill him and they let him go.

By your argument I can get my father locked up when he told me "Ek gaan you dood donner!" while in school.
 
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Don't worry the cow will be eaten. The house burnt down. And the useless will go and try and steal again.
 
Moosedrool said:
They scared him and assaulted him. These charges I'm fine with but not attempted murder. Because they didn't intent to kill him. There's no intervention which stopped a murder, there is no harm done which indicates they intended to kill him and they let him go.

By your argument I can get my father locked up when he told me "Ek gaan you dood donner!" while in school.
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They had intent to murder and then decided not to go through or showed intent to murder but then said they were playing a game, no difference in behaviour just in claims after the fact, you can't have your cake and eat it, that's not the way the law works. And they were guilty of kidnapping the guy and holding him hostage, assault as well, just on those grounds you can say judge well done you put some bad guys away.

All these pundits whining about the sentence, if you mother always parked in the disabled parking and eventually someone got gatvol and decided to kidnap her and teach her a lesson, the person put your mother through what transpired in this case, kidnapped/held hostage and assaulted. The perpetrators were caught and brought to trail, I'm 100% positive if the same verdict was reached in that trial as here you would be happy that justice was served.
 
airborne said:
They had intent to murder and then decided not to go through or showed intent to murder but then said they were playing a game, no difference in behaviour just in claims after the fact, you can't have your cake and eat it, that's not the way the law works. And they were guilty of kidnapping the guy and holding him hostage, assault as well, just on those grounds you can say judge well done you put some bad guys away.

All these pundits whining about the sentence, if you mother always parked in the disabled parking and eventually someone got gatvol and decided to kidnap her and teach her a lesson, the person put your mother through what transpired in this case, kidnapped/held hostage and assaulted. The perpetrators were caught and brought to trail, I'm 100% positive if the same verdict was reached in that trial as here you would be happy that justice was served.
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They didn't have intent to kill him. This whole, "Ah they changed their mind during the assault." Argument is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. Look at that second sentence for an analogy as to why it is ludicrous.

And yes the other charges should stick and they should be doing time for it.

I'll be pissed off if someone did that to my mother but feelings don't come before facts. If caught they'll be doing their time for kidnapping, assault and suchlike.
 
Moosedrool said:
They didn't have intent to kill him. This whole, "Ah they changed their mind during the assault." Argument is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. Look at that second sentence for an analogy as to why it is ludicrous.

And yes the other charges should stick and they should be doing time for it.

I'll be pissed off if someone did that to my mother but feelings don't come before facts. If caught they'll be doing their time for kidnapping, assault and suchlike.
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People get buried in coffins it's not that hard.
 
daveza said:
Maybe I missed it but these guys were driving with a coffin ?
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It was stored om the farm

Delmas - Farm owner Johannes Mattheus de Beer who employed Theo Jackson, an accused in the coffin case, testified that the coffin in which Victor Mlotshwa was forced into was purchased by his father to be used by employees to bury their family members.

The High Court sitting in the Delmas Magistrate's Court in Mpumalanga on Monday heard that De Beer's father bought two coffins, one of which was used by an employee to bury a deceased relative and the other which was stored away and subsequently used to force Mlotshwa in.
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From post 446 https://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showth...ault-trial?p=20143197&viewfull=1#post20143197
 
Moosedrool said:
They scared him and assaulted him. These charges I'm fine with but not attempted murder. Because they didn't intent to kill him. There's no intervention which stopped a murder, there is no harm done which indicates they intended to kill him and they let him go.
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If I walk up to a car, smash the window, open the door, rip out the ignition and try to hot wire the car before giving up after 10 minutes and getting caught while leaving the scene, I'd be charged with damage to property and attempted theft. It doesn't matter that I was actually just trying to see if I knew enough about car electronics to be able to start the car, and had no intention of actually driving off with it. In the eyes of 99.9% of people watching me, there is clear intent to steal the car.

In court, a history of starting cars and leaving them behind with the engines running might throw some doubt on what the obvious intent is.

But beating someone up, and putting him in a coffin, all while trying to make him believe he was going to die? They'd have to have had EMS on standby, in case they went too far, or some similar measure to indicate a different intent.

Moosedrool said:
By your argument I can get my father locked up when he told me "Ek gaan you dood donner!" while in school.
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If he then beat you harder than he had ever beaten you before, and then also threw you into a coffin while making further threats against your life, then yes, you could probably get him locked up.
 
Random717 said:
You guys really don't see how putting someone into a coffin, while verbally threatening to kill them isn't a sign of intent, and a visible display of acting on that intent? That's all that's required for attempted murder in South Africa.



The judge took 4 hours to review the evidence and explain the nuances of the judgement, yet people here refute it with a couple of sentences framed by ad-hominem attacks. Wow. What law firms do you work for, so the rest of us can hire your great legal minds?
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Revisit the tread again when it is overturned on appeal.
 
Random717 said:
If I walk up to a car, smash the window, open the door, rip out the ignition and try to hot wire the car before giving up after 10 minutes and getting caught while leaving the scene, I'd be charged with damage to property and attempted theft. It doesn't matter that I was actually just trying to see if I knew enough about car electronics to be able to start the car, and had no intention of actually driving off with it. In the eyes of 99.9% of people watching me, there is clear intent to steal the car.

In court, a history of starting cars and leaving them behind with the engines running might throw some doubt on what the obvious intent is.

But beating someone up, and putting him in a coffin, all while trying to make him believe he was going to die? They'd have to have had EMS on standby, in case they went too far, or some similar measure to indicate a different intent.


If he then beat you harder than he had ever beaten you before, and then also threw you into a coffin while making further threats against your life, then yes, you could probably get him locked up.
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Putting someone inside a coffin isn't showing intent to kill. Nothing you extrapolate will ever change that, sorry, but it's the truth. It was a scare tactic and any sane person acknowledges that. If you somehow conflate it with intent, every single robbery will have to be tried for attempted murder, because I'm 100% sure every single person who is burgled or mugged or hijacked is worried about being killed. This is a bloody stupid precedent to be setting.
 
Two definitions of attempted murder.

A conviction for attempted murder requires a demonstration of an intent to murder, meaning that the perpetrator either tried to murder and failed (e.g. attempted to shoot the victim and missed or shot the victim and the victim survived) or took a substantial step towards committing a murder (e.g. purchasing a gun or other deadly weapon and writing about his intent to kill).
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Attempted murder is the crime of simultaneously preparing to commit an unlawful killing and having a specific intention to cause the death of a human.
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This case fits neither definition.
 
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