Computer no longer needed to make calls over the internet

[bwana]

Then there's little difference between mwebs proprietary offering and existing methods - except having to pay 17c for calling a number on another SA network (IS).

 

[Gatecrasher]

It seems fine if you are already an MWEB ADSL subscriber, but not much of an incentive to become one.

MWEB has 45000 ADSL subscribers, or about 40% of the country’s broadband users.

Eh? That would make 112 500 broadband users in SA. I know broadband penetration is low, but not that low. What about wireless broadband users? Vodacom, MTN, Iburst, Sentech, etc. ADSL is not the only broadband out there.

Don't journalists check their facts?

 

[bwana]

It seems fine if you are already an MWEB ADSL subscriber, but not much of an incentive to become one.



Eh? That would make 112 500 broadband users in SA. I know broadband penetration is low, but not that low. What about wireless broadband users? Vodacom, MTN, Iburst, Sentech, etc. ADSL is not the only broadband out there.

Don't journalists check their facts?

Do you have a more accurate figure? According to this article from July 05 there were 81 510 broadband subscribers including non adsl offerings.

EDIT - This seems to be more like it - "South Africa’s 230 000"

 

[RichardP]

RichardP : Because you dont have a SA phone number and as such you cant replace your current line. Or do you expect everyone to phone your UK number

I have a Cell Phone for local people to contact me... When I am dealing with european and american customers, then they phone my other VoIP lines.... in my buisness day, Telkom features 0%. My VoIP lines are with me where-ever I have iBurst coverage in SA.

When was the last time you got a phone call on your land line ?

 

[JStrike]

bwana v.12 : Because I dont want to use differnt phones/apps to make calls. I want to use one phone to make my local calls, over seas calls and recieve local calls. It doesn't have to be the cheapest in every area, as long as it is cheap overall. That is where this deal from MWeb comes in. Unfortunatly, I cant make use of it due to me using MyWireless. But if I was using ADSL, I would switch to mweb in a heartbeat

But since this 087 number is not fully operational, it isn't really leaving me that upset

 

[tty128]

Typical MWeb ripoff - 60c per minute? At your avergate international VOIP provider, it's closer to 6c per minute.

My setup at home (I make a lot of international calls):


Receive local calls to Telkom line I'm forced to have because of ADSL (also cellphone)

ADSL Line

Connection to www.broadvoice.com

Free unlimited calls to 35 countries for R150 (rounded) per month (excl Telkom costs). I have a US number a UK number (extra charge) for incoming calls.
I've had a phone adaptor for the last 1 1/2 years (and MWeb still advertises like it's a new invention exclusive to them) connected to my DECT cordless phone.

No PC nessecary - hooked up to my ADSL directly via Router - convenient as hell, just pick up the phone and dial. Crystal clear sound quality - almost impossible to tell it's a VOIP call.


Why is it that in South Africa, whenever somebody has the chance to do something at a decent price, they instead choose to rip off people that don't know better? I'm sorry to say this, but this is a typical South Africa mentality, and the reason we're still in the dark ages.


Edit: To reply to JStrike - if you get an ATA like the Supura (now Linksys owned, which is Cisco owned) SPA-3000, you can hook up your Telkom analog line and use one phone to make local or international calls. You define "masks" of numbers and tell the device when a certain mask has been dialled, it should route the call out a certain line. This is what I have and it works great.

 

[onionpeel]

Not true. Rates (also read as 'deals') have to be approved by ICASA and similar treatment must be applied to all interconnected operators.
Remember, interconnect is used to recover costs. The terminating network operator doesn't have a billing relationship with the originator of the call (as used in a particular call scenario). We all know that the originator of the call has to foot the bill, but that money has to be shared amongst the other network operators the call goes through or to.

 

[onionpeel]

Welcome to South Africa, Rip Off Central

Why is it that in South Africa, whenever somebody has the chance to do something at a decent price, they instead choose to rip off people that don't know better? I'm sorry to say this, but this is a typical South Africa mentality, and the reason we're still in the dark ages.

Yip, spot on. Saffas get ripped off with electronics, motor vehicles, telecommunications and perhaps quite a few more things. One of my second line reasons why I am now living in New Zealand.
If you folks don't believe me, price say a LCD BRAVIA television on www.sony.co.za and then price the same item on www.sony.co.nz.
The current exchange rate is R4.20 to NZ$1.00.
For motor vehicles, price a Suzuki Swift Limited edition model on www.suzuki.co.nz (check the features of this car ) and then find out that with the same money in SA, you could only afford and entry level Tazz (and that after the Tazz is made in SA, not imported like the Suzuki in NZ!!)

 

[onionpeel]

Ok, but does that still apply, as in the case that bwana was trying to make, when a call originated locally from IS to MWeb or the other way around, is completely VoIP and never breaksout into the PSTN or cellular networks?

Not sure, I was referring to interconnect with the telcos; Telkom, MTN, Vodacom, Cell C, Sentech etc.
The same principle *may* be applied to the VoIP to VoIP providers. Once they have established a fee structure between them, they cannot suddenly hike the price just because Telkom want to use them (as transit for a call to another local VoIP carrier). Of course, there are different termination rates which will need to be factored in, but interconnected operators whould be treated the same. Also keep in mind that ICASA is working on COA/CAM (cost based interconnection charging model) so they will be keeping a very close eye on the charging between networks.

 

[bwana]

Not true. Rates (also read as 'deals') have to be approved by ICASA and similar treatment must be applied to all interconnected operators.

Isnt ICASA only now looking into the interconnection rates between telkom and the mobile operators? Were they pre-approved?

Regardless - Telkom, et al, are under no obligation to provide interconnection services to mweb.

 

[Jeeva]

This is such a stupid article/product - just buy a Linksys PAP-2 for like R 450, and there you go!

 

[TimTango]

I think you are all missing the point here (again?)

This 'offer' is really simple - All MWEB ADSL customers are given a real ICASA 087 voip number if they want one. All MWEB ADSL customers can now call each other and talk for as long as they want for free. Granted, there is a bandwidth charge, but it's still cheap. Cheaper than Skype's bandwidth usage (no P2P involved). How many other services in South Africa are doing that? International call rates are competitive with Telkom. Nobody is forcing anyone to make use of this service if they don't want to - any ADSL customer is entitled to find an off-shore voip provider, source hardware, configure it and use it. But I imagine many ordinary non-technical ADSL users will welcome an extra phone line in the house, with no monthly line rental, and cheaper call costs than they are currently used to. Why is that so evil???? I have yet to see any news item posted to this board that did not result in the geek elite bashing Telkom, MWEB, Sentech or whoever is mentioned. Get over yourselves, it's boring!

 

[bb_matt]

Hoookay, now I said early on in this thread that this Mweb offering didn't make sense and that it's overpriced.

Word to the wise, don't take this as meaning that everything in SA is a ripoff.

Believe me, your going to encounter this type of thing in ANY country you visit and in fact, far worse.

We all know that Mweb aren't the cheapest kids on the block and certainly, they are akin to Incredible Corruption in that they draw in those who don't know any better - I've frequently been alarmed at what some of my old clients were paying for shockingly sub-standard hosting services.

Those clients knew no better, so I put them on the right track.

This is definately a fault of Journalism in SA - there's simply no well known consumer friendly groups who can point you in the right direction. In the UK, there's scores of consumer info groups to help you make an informed decision, in SA, there's very few.

Mweb can therefore make the claim that they are giving the public and thier users a fantastic new service, when meantime, it's old news.

I read that an Mweb VOIP handset is going to cost users R500.

Now, I don't want to make any rash accusations about that price, but it had better be a very special item, as VOIP handsets can be had for as little as R200 if you shop around.

I don't like Mweb, I never have, but that's because I'm informed - I know of far better, cheaper alternatives. Unfortunately, many people in SA go where the ad-spend is - they follow the adverts and Mweb has a large marketing budget - which is probably why they are so frikkin' expensive.

The only way to push these margins in the right direction, is to inform people - word of mouth.

Also, it's clear to me that VOIP phone calls are not some sort of magic solution to standard voice lines - the quality varies depending on network saturation.

Phoning my brother on SkypeOut to his landline is touch and go - sometimes it's a reasonable connection, with a bit of delay, othertimes, it's just impossible to talk.

At the end of the day, you pay for quality and I really don't think Mweb are quality - I just think of that old product of thiers "the big black box" and the marketing BS around it and cringe.

They managed to package a standard cr@ppy modem, some second rate software and a manual in a big flashy box and sell it to thousands of poor punters with 300% markup (after profits)

I guess they needed to recoup the huge ad-spend ...

 

[arf9999]

Yip, spot on. Saffas get ripped off with electronics, motor vehicles, telecommunications and perhaps quite a few more things. One of my second line reasons why I am now living in New Zealand.
If you folks don't believe me, price say a LCD BRAVIA television on www.sony.co.za and then price the same item on www.sony.co.nz.
The current exchange rate is R4.20 to NZ$1.00.

Make sure you pint at the right people though - reason that the BRAVIA is more expensive has mostly to do with protective tariffs to protect the local TV manufacturing industry... It the taxman's fault. Import duties on imported TVs are close to 38%.

 

[onionpeel]

Make sure you pint at the right people though - reason that the BRAVIA is more expensive has mostly to do with protective tariffs to protect the local TV manufacturing industry... It the taxman's fault. Import duties on imported TVs are close to 38%.

Fair enough, although I am not aware of any SA company manufacturing anything close to the state of the art BRAVIA.

 

[arf9999]

Fair enough, although I am not aware of any SA company manufacturing anything close to the state of the art BRAVIA.

exactly...protective tariffs don't work! If you can't compete, then DON'T.

 

[captainwifi]

Hmmm, but the infrastructure required to use the service is still via Telkom obviously.

1. A Telkom landline
2. ADSL from Mweb, installed by Telkom
3. A handset provided by Mweb

The service will work over a stable DIGINET line as discussed in the
fixed-line forum.