Computer Science or Computer Engineering?

Havent read all the previous posts, but heres my 2c:

At uct you can study computer science, but in the computer engineering stream. So you will major in computer science and electrical engineering, doing full year courses for each in all of the your 3/4 years. That was pretty much the only restriction that was placed on that stream at uct. A few others did electrical engineering with a double major in computer science. Where i work, there are developers from both areas - engineering with comp sci, and comp sci with engineering, so you will be able to be a developer either way. Electrical engineering might open up a potentially more interesting career if you are interested in embedded systems etc, such as writing code for pieces of hardware.

Hope this helps.
 
Ah... back now, are we sn3rd? :p

Tuks are busy changing their degrees now, so a lot of the modules are being thrown out and new ones brought in. Just to mention a few changes:
2nd year
Statistics
Circuits
Electronic Components
Calculus (228)
C++ 2 (COS214)

3rd year
Stochastics
Design $ Manufacturing
Optical communications
Signal processing
about 2-4 others are being replaces too if I remember correctly.

I agree with the above debate between CS and CE. Just remember that CE is A LOT more mathematically oriented than CS and you need at least 70% to do CE, preferably around 80%. Same with Science.
CE has a lot of assembler and c++ in 3rd year (in 4/5 modules), Matlab is also often used.
 
froot said:
Ah... back now, are we sn3rd? :p

Tuks are busy changing their degrees now, so a lot of the modules are being thrown out and new ones brought in. Just to mention a few changes:
2nd year
Statistics
Circuits
Electronic Components
Calculus (228)
C++ 2 (COS214)

3rd year
Stochastics
Design $ Manufacturing
Optical communications
Signal processing
about 2-4 others are being replaces too if I remember correctly.

I agree with the above debate between CS and CE. Just remember that CE is A LOT more mathematically oriented than CS and you need at least 70% to do CE, preferably around 80%. Same with Science.
CE has a lot of assembler and c++ in 3rd year (in 4/5 modules), Matlab is also often used.
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What's THAT supposed to mean? :rolleyes:

I always have to defend my profession :) And Gnome always has to defend his, lol.

I suppose I should be telling people NOT to do CE, then CE's will be more scarce, and I'll get more $$ :D
 
sn3rd said:
What's THAT supposed to mean? :rolleyes:

I always have to defend my profession :) And Gnome always has to defend his, lol.

I suppose I should be telling people NOT to do CE, then CE's will be more scarce, and I'll get more $$ :D
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:D
Was pulling your leg :p
Yeah, that would be a good idea... more money for us then, you're right.
We are in the wrong profession though... heard of a job in Sandton for C# developer, 5y experience, offering R65k + benefits.... a month :eek:
 
froot said:
:D
Was pulling your leg :p
Yeah, that would be a good idea... more money for us then, you're right.
We are in the wrong profession though... heard of a job in Sandton for C# developer, 5y experience, offering R65k + benefits.... a month :eek:
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Is that by any chance the job I've just left for a CE job? :eek: :D :p

But don't forget about that job up in central Africa (can't remember the country offhand) for a Computer Engineer with 5 years experience. "High stress", but R500 000 per month + housing, etc.
 
sn3rd said:
Is that by any chance the job I've just left for a CE job? :eek: :D :p

But don't forget about that job up in central Africa (can't remember the country offhand) for a Computer Engineer with 5 years experience. "High stress", but R500 000 per month + housing, etc.
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500k per month isn't bad.... AT ALL. And most likely it will be tax free, as it's generally paid in $US.
 
Gnome said:
Yeah only problem I have with BIT is, you can do exactly the same as BSc(CS/IT) except it's 4 years.
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Wrong. B.IT covers a much broader scope of IT which the BSc degrees don't. B.IT has a strong focus on Informatics as well, which the BSc degrees lack. During the fourth year you actually do your honours based on a selection of honours subjects from anything the School of IT at UP offers. The choice is much broader than any of the BCom or BSc students have.

In B.IT we had 90% of all the BSc subjects, 80% of all the BCom subjects and a hoard of extra Information Science and Multimedia subjects thrown in for good measure. Only in your third year could you really start specializing in one of the 3 main areas, i.e. Computer Science, Informatics or Information Science. The first 2 years gave you a solid foundation in all those courses.

Gnome said:
Whereas doing BSc(CS/IT) you do your 3 year degree (exactly like BIT) and then get a Degree (unlike BIT) and after that you can still choose to complete your Honours, except in BIT you do a module on 4th year (IE honours) level where I hear you have to get a job, basically you are paying the University of Pretoria, to get a job.
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Again wrong. B.IT includes your "honours" part of your degree, much like the Engineering degrees. The only difference is that you don't have a choice in doing it - you have to in order to get your degree. The IBL subject is just a different "research" subject. Just like the Informatics guys have a subject like Research Methodology and then have to set out to write a research paper based on a certain amount of topics, the IBL subject for B.IT lets you gain 6 months of work experience and then write your research paper based on the experience you gained. It's a very hands-on approach and adds more value than a standard research paper, imho.

Gnome said:
Also heard rumors that part of your paycheck goes toward UP, but I'm not 100% on that.
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Very untrue. I did not pay a cent of my salary during that period to UP.

Gnome said:
I honestly and truly do not see the benefit of BIT except perhaps if you don't have the required 60% for all modules on 3rd year level you can still complete your "honours" whereas Honours(CS) requires 60% average on 3rd year COS modules.
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As you say, it gives students who didn't quite reach the 60% average a shot at improving themselves at honours level. Another interesting fact though: B.IT is one of the toughest IT courses at UP. During my first year I had 27 subjects. 60% of all the students went over to either BSc CS or BCom Informatics after the first semester, because they couldn't take the pressure... To give you an indication: We started off with 184 students at first year. We were a group of 26 B.IT students in our final year. I personally know many of the guys who dropped out of the course and they all claimed that the BSc of BCom courses were more manageable.

The aim of the B.IT course is to bridge the gap between the business minded (Informatics) and the technology minded (Computer Science). That's the main reason B.IT covers such a broad scope of the IT industry. You also have a much wider range of career opportunities after completing the course.
 
FarligOpptreden said:
Wrong. B.IT covers a much broader scope of IT which the BSc degrees don't. B.IT has a strong focus on Informatics as well, which the BSc degrees lack. During the fourth year you actually do your honours based on a selection of honours subjects from anything the School of IT at UP offers. The choice is much broader than any of the BCom or BSc students have.

In B.IT we had 90% of all the BSc subjects, 80% of all the BCom subjects and a hoard of extra Information Science and Multimedia subjects thrown in for good measure. Only in your third year could you really start specializing in one of the 3 main areas, i.e. Computer Science, Informatics or Information Science. The first 2 years gave you a solid foundation in all those courses.


Again wrong. B.IT includes your "honours" part of your degree, much like the Engineering degrees. The only difference is that you don't have a choice in doing it - you have to in order to get your degree. The IBL subject is just a different "research" subject. Just like the Informatics guys have a subject like Research Methodology and then have to set out to write a research paper based on a certain amount of topics, the IBL subject for B.IT lets you gain 6 months of work experience and then write your research paper based on the experience you gained. It's a very hands-on approach and adds more value than a standard research paper, imho.


Very untrue. I did not pay a cent of my salary during that period to UP.


As you say, it gives students who didn't quite reach the 60% average a shot at improving themselves at honours level. Another interesting fact though: B.IT is one of the toughest IT courses at UP. During my first year I had 27 subjects. 60% of all the students went over to either BSc CS or BCom Informatics after the first semester, because they couldn't take the pressure... To give you an indication: We started off with 184 students at first year. We were a group of 26 B.IT students in our final year. I personally know many of the guys who dropped out of the course and they all claimed that the BSc of BCom courses were more manageable.

The aim of the B.IT course is to bridge the gap between the business minded (Informatics) and the technology minded (Computer Science). That's the main reason B.IT covers such a broad scope of the IT industry. You also have a much wider range of career opportunities after completing the course.
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Uh-oh... Look at what we've started :D

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire:
Many CE students drop out of CE to study other fields of engineering, actuarial science, computer science, B.IT... And they ALL claim it's more manageable than CE...

And if you haven't yet realised I'm saying this tongue-in-cheek, then calm down, lol...

1) Different people have different perceptions of the difficulty of one course or another.
2) If you're dropping out of a course, you're generally feeling pretty stupid. That leads you to work harder at the next course, and then it seems more manageable.
3) Dropping out of one course and saying the next one is more manageable would only reflect a personal opinion. Someone dropping out of CE to do Law might say that, but someone that is not at all inclined to do Law would certainly not say the same. It doesn't mean it's more or less difficult.
4) Sure, some people have the ability to excel at almost anything they put their minds to. These people are in the minority.

/me stands back to watch the fireworks :D
 
/me launches fireworks

I honestly don't understand the problem you have with the B.IT degree? It covers pretty much all the CS content, as well as 75% of all the Informatics content, with a student having the option of choosing which direction to specialize in. We also did all the maths and COS subjects you guys did (even the famed COS214 :p). Some of the CS guys were surprised to here we weren't actually CS students, because we had all their classes with them... Same goes for the Informatics guys. I really feel it is a very comprehensive degree that gives you a good foundation in the IT industry, with the added benefits of being able to talk business and not all tech-jargon...

/me ducks for potential retaliation
 
Wow, just realized something when looking at BIT. I jumped around in 1st year and completed a bunch of extra modules, financial accounting, business management, information science. That is exactly the stuff they do extra, LOL!!

Only modules I missed 1st/2nd year was FIL120 (Philosophy), EOT 164 (Communication some or other, it's EOT need I say more?) and BER 410 (Business Law).

Out of all those modules I didn't find anything particularly useful since it only gives you a background but I see what you are saying.

Either way I still get to have a degree now and do my honours while BIT students still have nothing :D

FarligOpptreden said:
even the famed COS214
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That module is 1st year now, LOL! COS131/COS130 is C++ now and it's compulsory for all IT students (it's just called COS131 now), they've made it quite a bit harder, COS110 is C++
 
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Ho-hum... I ALSO just realized something: "jealousy makes you nasty" ;)

EDIT: Even though COS213/4 (Design Patterns in C++) is a "second year subject", we did it in the last quarter of our first year. Anyway, it was actually still called COS213 at that time. The year after us they changed it to COS214...

COS110 was still Java when we did it.
 
FarligOpptreden said:
Ho-hum... I ALSO just realized something: "jealousy makes you nasty" ;)

EDIT: Even though COS213/4 (Design Patterns in C++) is a "second year subject", we did it in the last quarter of our first year. Anyway, it was actually still called COS213 at that time. The year after us they changed it to COS214...

COS110 was still Java when we did it.
Click to expand...

COS214 is no longer in the syllabus...
 
sn3rd said:
Uh-oh... Look at what we've started :D

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire:
Many CE students drop out of CE to study other fields of engineering, actuarial science, computer science, B.IT... And they ALL claim it's more manageable than CE...

And if you haven't yet realised I'm saying this tongue-in-cheek, then calm down, lol...

1) Different people have different perceptions of the difficulty of one course or another.
2) If you're dropping out of a course, you're generally feeling pretty stupid. That leads you to work harder at the next course, and then it seems more manageable.
3) Dropping out of one course and saying the next one is more manageable would only reflect a personal opinion. Someone dropping out of CE to do Law might say that, but someone that is not at all inclined to do Law would certainly not say the same. It doesn't mean it's more or less difficult.
4) Sure, some people have the ability to excel at almost anything they put their minds to. These people are in the minority.

/me stands back to watch the fireworks :D
Click to expand...

Do you have any idea of how many people have dropped out in my CE "class"? About 40%, if not more (you meet up with guys from the previous year and forget who started when).
 
Looks like I'm an old-timer here... I graduated my FOUR YEAR (including honours) degree, B.IT, in 2005. Yes, syllabuses do change over time to meet with ever changing educational needs.
 
FarligOpptreden said:
Looks like I'm an old-timer here... I graduated my FOUR YEAR (including honours) degree, B.IT, in 2005. Yes, syllabuses do change over time to meet with ever changing educational needs.
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Not quite... the engineering faculty is dropping some mildly old modules but keeping 8yo modules too, when the mild modules are still all good and the old ones... well they need replacing.
 
froot said:
I heard about that bit... but is the content the same?
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Yeah it will be the same except they won't be teaching C++ at all, that is the job of COS131 1st semester, which is a prerequisite for COS121 2nd semester.
 
Gnome said:
Yeah it will be the same except they won't be teaching C++ at all, that is the job of COS131 1st semester, which is a prerequisite for COS121 2nd semester.
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I remember doing COS131... was fun... and I passed pretty well without even being able to code a single word of c++ :D
I don't remember we doing much "c++" in COS214 though... a lot of time was spent with those annoying design patterns and troubleshooting our buggy code (I only passed one practical and still passed the module).
 
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