ConCourt rules for ANC in candidate lists case

konfab said:
They are playing with fire with this one, because it can affect the election integrity. Their released judgement is only for the ANC with zero timelines attached.

Which means that if another party was in the same situation, they would be entitled to relief and have the IEC reprint the ballot as well. And if they asked the IEC to do so, and the IEC didn't, then they can challenge the election result in court, as there are no timelines.

A proper ruling would at least be limited by saying: all parties that uploaded valid candidate lists and had paid the required amount by the original date are allowed to be on the ballot. Although since the IEC doesn't necessarily keep track of what was uploaded, there is a problem there as well.

For all we know they wipe it clean after the final submission date.
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When the rulings were going against the ANC, there were no issues with the integrity of the election, but as soon as the court rules in favour of the ANC, then there will be issues with the integrity of the elections?
 
Nerfherder said:
They had to make a decision because the election is in 19 days time.
They can deliberate for the next week but the IEC need to know what to put on the ballots.

What's going to be really bad is if there is a problem with the ruling... could put the entire election at risk.
Its probably better if we just take this on the chin and accept.
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Kinda backs up what I'm saying. They made a gut-feel call. Nothing to do with the Law, they'll think of a way to spin it later. Where does the IEC get it's funding?
 
konfab said:
They are playing with fire with this one, because it can affect the election integrity. Their released judgement is only for the ANC with zero timelines attached.

Which means that if another party was in the same situation, they would be entitled to relief and have the IEC reprint the ballot as well. And if they asked the IEC to do so, and the IEC didn't, then they can challenge the election result in court, as there are no timelines.

A proper ruling would at least be limited by saying: all parties that uploaded valid candidate lists and had paid the required amount by the original date are allowed to be on the ballot. Although since the IEC doesn't necessarily keep track of what was uploaded, there is a problem there as well.

For all we know they wipe it clean after the final submission date.
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I hear you, but I suppose if eight of the most senior and experienced judges in the country have ruled on the matter, we should respect that.
 
TheChamp said:
When the rulings were going against the ANC, there were no issues with the integrity of the election, but as soon as the court rules in favour of the ANC, then there will be issues with the integrity of the elections?
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Election integrity happens when the rules are the same and fair for everyone. The prior judgements were keeping the rules the same for everyone, even if that meant the ANC lost out due to being incompetent.

Now the concourt has potentially made it an integrity issue by opening the door to other parties being able to also claim that their submissions were not finalised as well. If the judgement only gives favour to the ANC then they are creating an even larger integrity problem.
 
Kornhub said:
Didn't they also screw something up during the 2021 elections ?
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The ConCourt ruled against the ANC in that case, despite Zille casting serious aspersions on the ConCourt when she thought they were going to rule in favour of the ANC, and there was no drama.
 
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TheChamp said:
When the rulings were going against the ANC, there were no issues with the integrity of the election, but as soon as the court rules in favour of the ANC, then there will be issues with the integrity of the elections?
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The fact that the ANC are involved at all raises the question of integrity because the swine do not have any.
 
vigras rojara said:
I hear you, but I suppose if eight of the most senior and experienced judges in the country have ruled on the matter, we should respect that.
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They are not that unfortunately. If they were selected by actual legal experts themselves (so you basically get judges and senior members of the bar to elect them) , you might have an argument, but they are appointed by the likes of Malema.

This is the calibre of argument that determines whether someone is fit to be a judge:

1792068954662.png

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...its-indisputable-that-he-has-white-privilege/


Who cares about his experience and qualifications, he is a white man and that is a problem.
 
konfab said:
They are not that unfortunately. If they were selected by actual legal experts themselves (so you basically get judges and senior members of the bar to elect them) , you might have an argument, but they are appointed by the likes of Malema.

This is the calibre of argument that determines whether someone is fit to be a judge:

View attachment 1945608

https://www.timeslive.co.za/news/so...its-indisputable-that-he-has-white-privilege/


Who cares about his experience and qualifications, he is a white man and that is a problem.
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Exactly. Now don't be like Julius.
 
konfab said:
Election integrity happens when the rules are the same and fair for everyone. The prior judgements were keeping the rules the same for everyone, even if that meant the ANC lost out due to being incompetent.

Now the concourt has potentially made it an integrity issue by opening the door to other parties being able to also claim that their submissions were not finalised as well. If the judgement only gives favour to the ANC then they are creating an even larger integrity problem.
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And the rules are the same and fair for everyone only when the courts rules against the ANC? Because all along when the courts were ruling against the ANC, there were no questions on the integrity of the elections.
 
ghaye said:
Kinda backs up what I'm saying. They made a gut-feel call. Nothing to do with the Law, they'll think of a way to spin it later. Where does the IEC get it's funding?
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Possibly.

It was a time critical decision though, so they basically just gave them the benifit of the doubt.
It looks like incompetence instead of malice.

If I have to choose between the ANC's list being included and the entire election being invalidated.. Ill just let them have their list.
 
vigras rojara said:
If only justices Konfab, Vrotappel and Dream King had been on the bench, justice would have prevailed.

Alas, it was not to be
Like a healthy piece of KFC

(That rhymes).😎
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That is making it personal. In a free society, people can disagree with a judgement.

I am pointing out that the judgement is going to have some serious consequences. SA judges have a problem with understanding the consequences of their judgements. For example, them allowing the expropriation of mineral rights without compensation has destroyed the mining industry.

In this judgement there is this can of worms in the appeal docs:

1792069614459.png
Now you have 2274 holes in the election that you need to fill.
 
konfab said:
That is making it personal. In a free society, people can disagree with a judgement.

I am pointing out that the judgement is going to have some serious consequences. SA judges have a problem with understanding the consequences of their judgements. For example, them allowing the expropriation of mineral rights without compensation has destroyed the mining industry.

In this judgement there is this can of worms in the appeal docs:

View attachment 1945614
Now you have 2274 holes in the election that you need to fill.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the ConCourt judges are competent people. They aren't all appointed by Malema, despite your previous comment.
 
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