Congrats ANC Government?

[Jola]

How will we pay for years ? 14 billion isn't a fart against a gale in terms of our national GDP. I bet your average South African would not even gain 1000 bucks if we didn't have the world cup. For some perspective take a look at this.


Who cares about the A.N.C anyway ? Good or bad the government has very little to do with what the country does or does not do. Same goes for the rest of the world.

1) How many concrete enclosed toilets can you build with R14bn ! Don't come with that BS, it's a lot of money !!!

2) The government can take all your money in the form of taxes and p*** it against the wall ! Stupid comment !

 

[genetic]

Well here are a few reason why I think the Soccer world cup is not as successful as some hoped it would be.

-- Allot of money was given to upgrade our infrastructure and build stadium to host the world cup, but just how much money made it into the even? How many fat cats pocketed it for their own gain true corruption and greed? How much money was taken away from health and education budget and other important departments to be able to finance the world cup?

No money was taken away from other services. Infact money for healthcare and education actually increased.

--Some of the upgrades that was done on our national roads are still not done and paused due to the world cup. Some places barely made it in time, like the upgrades in Hatfield.

Most of the upgrades were never meant for the WC. The WC was a catalyst in most upgrades, but was never the cause. Construction is on pause to help curb any further congestion on the roads during the tournament.

-- The opening yesterday of the world cup was such a let down you can see that they only had enough money to do the stadiums and nothing left for the opening ceremony. Its not just me that think so, Ive been looking at over seas forums and allot of people got the wrong perspective of South Africa and say that we made a fool out of ourself's. A dung beetle? wth. . .

Somehow I doubt that. Care to share those negative forum comments with us? links maybe?

--The stadium yesterday wasn't even nearly full with the opening? Because people didn't want to go? Maybe could have saved them from the horrible opening. But no the traffic was so bad people where parking on the highway and walking to the stadium. Some Mexican supporters said that they have been to allot of world cups and this has been their worst since traffic and unclear directions to get to the stadium.

:erm: Soccer City was nearly full to capacity. Some Mexican supporters say... Is that hearsay? From the interviews on TV every single Mexican supporter was loving it!

If you really want to know if the world cup is a success ask the people that come into South Africa for it. They had certain standards that needed to be met and have they? Noo because we in South Africa are used to poor service delivery and poor standards. We cant possibly hope to give a 1st world soccer world cup in a 3rd world country.

:erm: We just did.

And dont even get me started on the topic of vuvuzelas. The Mexican team had allot more support for their supporters than we did. Why? Because we where to busy blowing out hot air and not cheering the names of the players and sining the national anthem.

Personal preference I guess. That can hardly be used as a basis to judge whether the WC is a success or not.

Pew that felt good getting it of my chest.

Good for you.

 

[tp3to]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/Traffic-keeps-fans-from-opener-20100611

Carlos Mercenari, 60, a Mexican supporter, said he opted to walk six kilometres to the stadium to make sure he was in time to watch Bafana Bafana play Mexico in the opening match.

Yes most of the who are attending the world cup think is ok, but there are just as many who get aggravated by the transport. A 60 year old man walking 6km to be on time, he really loves his football.

And why you bringing up apartheid? I didn't mention anything about politics/apartheid/ruling parties or races?

I hate it when people still use apartheid as an excuse, its been 16 years people, time to move on.

 

[genetic]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/WorldCup/NationalNews/Traffic-keeps-fans-from-opener-20100611

And why you bringing up apartheid? I didn't mention anything about politics/apartheid/ruling parties or races?

I hate it when people still use apartheid as an excuse, its been 16 years people, time to move on.

Please direct me to the post where I referenced anything to apartheid, politics or ruling parties in my reply to your post. I'd love to see that, 'cause I'd say you're lying

 

[DreamKing]

-- The opening yesterday of the world cup was such a let down you can see that they only had enough money to do the stadiums and nothing left for the opening ceremony. Its not just me that think so, Ive been looking at over seas forums and allot of people got the wrong perspective of South Africa and say that we made a fool out of ourself's. A dung beetle? wth. . .

that is the most funniest moment........ ever in the world cup history ...... I promised.
I was enjoying this so much.

the sh-it bug with the sh-it soccer ball" = > the sh-it world cup

 

[Jola]

Too much racism here, I'm going to watch a few Cape Coloured brothers moer the French !

Go, Aplon, go !!!

 

[tp3to]

I don't understand however why some people would see in in their interest if it was a failure. I suppose those people either don't live in South Africa or have some form of archaic world view that makes them still see anything good post apartheid as a failure..

Please direct me to the post where I referenced anything to apartheid, politics or ruling parties in my reply to your post. I'd love to see that, 'cause I'd say you're lying

Yeah must have read your comment wrong

 

[PeterCH]

IF the WC is a success, will all the doomsayers come out the closet and congratulate the ANC Government?

Discuss

Congrats for what?

Oh using MY TAX money for bread and circuses instead of using it for any sane government would use it for? No congrats.

The WC will obviously occur but what defines success? No tourists murdered? A boon for the local economy? Well hotels and b&b's are pretty empty in Cape Town anyway.

Foreign companies came and built some stadiums with our money. Whoopee do.

Should congratulate the ANC government each day that they can get out of bed and put their pants on too.

 

[PeterCH]

Strange... if the WC fails, everyone will blame the ANC. If the WC is a great success, everyone will say the ANC had no part to play.

Touche.

False dichotomy there.

It is easy to do a WC. Just throw money at it. That's all. In fact the less the ANC did, other than provide money, the better. That's it - divert funding from more needy projects (because they underspend anyway - as you all say yet the population suffers because conveniently you are all middle class and don't see it) and give it to offshore companies to design stadiums and build them. Is that so difficult? Why congratulate the govt? For doing their job?

Who here is thanking the racists prior to 1994 for the WC? Because it's thanks to them. They discovered the gold and minerals in SA. They started mining them out. They brought the expertise. They build the power stations, harbours, roads etc. The ANC has done very little in the last 20 years to help the goose which lays the golden eggs. Now they threw money at the WC.

Everyone will say that the WC is a success but people from overseas will just be saying that. SA will be judged by a much lower standard because - "Shame, you're a developing nation" and you have Nelson Mandela (Rainbow Nation(TM)). Yet most ppl I speak to overseas don't even know who Mandela is and the images they see of SA are of refugees and people not able to get education.

Seriously, the WC happened despite better use for the money. While you watch the WC think of the dying people in government hospitals with no access to renal dialysis, essential surgery, medication or doctors.

SA was not ready for the WC. You can't throw an extravaganza when people die and suffer. That is just indecent and immoral. And just because the ANC does it, it does not make it any more decent than if the NP did it.

 

[Goldenrule]

Congrats for what?

Oh using MY TAX money for bread and circuses instead of using it for any sane government would use it for? No congrats.

The WC will obviously occur but what defines success? No tourists murdered? A boon for the local economy? Well hotels and b&b's are pretty empty in Cape Town anyway.

Foreign companies came and built some stadiums with our money. Whoopee do.

Should congratulate the ANC government each day that they can get out of bed and put their pants on too.

What foriegn companies ? And if they were foriegn companies then where did their workers themselves come from ?

I would like to know if this gentleman would have been complimentary if the government spent no money on the world cup and presented it in the existed current sub par stadiums. Sir, I put it to you. Would you have praised the orginisation of the world cup if no attempt was made to make nice stadiums and new infrastructure ?

 

[Goldenrule]

False dichotomy there.

It is easy to do a WC. Just throw money at it. That's all. In fact the less the ANC did, other than provide money, the better. That's it - divert funding from more needy projects (because they underspend anyway - as you all say yet the population suffers because conveniently you are all middle class and don't see it) and give it to offshore companies to design stadiums and build them. Is that so difficult? Why congratulate the govt? For doing their job?

Who here is thanking the racists prior to 1994 for the WC? Because it's thanks to them. They discovered the gold and minerals in SA. They started mining them out. They brought the expertise. They build the power stations, harbours, roads etc. The ANC has done very little in the last 20 years to help the goose which lays the golden eggs. Now they threw money at the WC.

Everyone will say that the WC is a success but people from overseas will just be saying that. SA will be judged by a much lower standard because - "Shame, you're a developing nation" and you have Nelson Mandela (Rainbow Nation(TM)). Yet most ppl I speak to overseas don't even know who Mandela is and the images they see of SA are of refugees and people not able to get education.

Seriously, the WC happened despite better use for the money. While you watch the WC think of the dying people in government hospitals with no access to renal dialysis, essential surgery, medication or doctors.

SA was not ready for the WC. You can't throw an extravaganza when people die and suffer. That is just indecent and immoral. And just because the ANC does it, it does not make it any more decent than if the NP did it.

This is a true story. I was in a government hospital yesterday that I had not put a foot in for 10 years. It was way better than before. Whole new areas had been built and were looking modern and crisply new. Other areas were newly upgraded and the nurses were far more professional than I remember. People were indeed dying though in the "progressive" wards. I can only suspect this improvement is thanks to improved funding and someone being put in charge who is pulling their finger out. Indeed funding has been increased for hospitals every yeat consistantly unlike some countries like the U.K who are having to pull the plug on much of their social funding. That poor regressive country.

But yes, I can think of better ways to spend money than a sports tournament. But South Africans, I feel, can afford to aspire to better things than mere survival. There is no crime in wanting to better yourself and compete with the best. I would feel real distress if our nation couldn't rise up to the challenge of hosting a mere sports tournament. As it stands we did and did it very well. I am happy therefore.

 

[PeterCH]

What foriegn companies ? And if they were foriegn companies then where did their workers themselves come from ?

The workers got paid now they're out of a job. Did you see the special yesterday on CNN about the 2004 WC in Japan and the Saitama World Cup Statium in Japan. They are struggling - the Japanese - the people who are the best organised and hard working workers in the world - are struggling to sustain it.

I would like to know if this gentleman would have been complimentary if the government spent no money on the world cup and presented it in the existed current sub par stadiums. Sir, I put it to you. Would you have praised the orginisation of the world cup if no attempt was made to make nice stadiums and new infrastructure ?

I would praise the WC if the people in charge got their priorities right. If SA was on the level of Germany I would praise the WC. SA is not on the development level of Germany or South Korea and unlike Germany and South Korea most of our population lives in squalor with poor access to state services (hence the talk of making private hospitals become state too). Have you been to Germany or South Korea? Do you know how good their state health care is? Do you know how good their services are? Those are rich, socialist countries - but they are very rich -we are not like that. We should not throw extrvaganzas until we have a similar economic level to SK or Germany. Such a high economic level would be a success to the ANC govt, not giving money - "Here's a budget - build a world cup."

 

[PeterCH]

This is a true story. I was in a government hospital yesterday that I had not put a foot in for 10 years. It was way better than before. Whole new areas had been buily and were looking modern and crisply new. Other areas were newly upgraded and the nurses were far more professional than I remember. People were indeed dying though in the "advanced" wards. I can only suspect this improvement is thanks to improved funding and someone being put in charge who is pulling their finger out.

But yes, I can think of better ways to spend money than a sports tournament. But South Africans, I feel, can afford to aspire to better things than mere survival. There is no crime in wanting to better yourself and compete with the best. I would feel real distress if our nation couldn't rise up to the challenge of hosting a mere sports tournament. As it stands we did and did it very well. I am happy therefore.

You don't know what you talk about. I have regular contact with the State services in the best State Service in SA - WC. I am a medical practitioner. You have no idea what you speak of.

Speak to your typical black South African and ask him why he brings his sick parents /family to the Western Cape from Eastern Cape for medical care. It's bad here too but a 100x better than over there.

 

[Sting]

What foriegn companies ?

Wrong....

Stadium owner: City of Johanessburg
Host City: City of Johannesburg
Contractor: Grinaker-LTA/Interbeton joint venture
Architect: Boogertman Urban Edge

Stadium owner: City of Cape Town
Host City: Cape Town
Contractor:Murray and Roberts / WBHO joint venture
Architect: GMP Architects

Stadium owner: Ethekwini Municipality
Host City: Durban
Contractor: Group 5 / WBHO / Pandev joint venture
Architect: iBhola Lethu

Stadium owner: Nelson Mandela Bay Metro
Host City: Nelson Mandela Bay/Port Elizabeth
Contractor: Grinaker-LTA / Interbeton / Ibhayi joint venture
Architect: Architectural Design Associates / Dominic Bonnesse Architects

Stadium owner: Polokwane Municipality
Host City: Polokwane
Contractor: WBHO / Paul joint venture
Architect: Prism Architects

Stadium owner: Mbombela Municipality
Host City: Nelspruit
Contractor: Basil read / Bouygues joint venture
Architect: RL Architects

 

[Goldenrule]

The workers got paid now they're out of a job. Did you see the special yesterday on CNN about the 2004 WC in Japan and the Saitama World Cup Statium in Japan. They are struggling - the Japanese - the people who are the best organised and hard working workers in the world - are struggling to sustain it.



I would praise the WC if the people in charge got their priorities right. If SA was on the level of Germany I would praise the WC. SA is not on the development level of Germany or South Korea and unlike Germany and South Korea most of our population lives in squalor with poor access to state services (hence the talk of making private hospitals become state too). Have you been to Germany or South Korea? Do you know how good their state health care is? Do you know how good their services are? Those are rich, socialist countries - but they are very rich -we are not like that. We should not throw extrvaganzas until we have a similar economic level to SK or Germany. Such a high economic level would be a success to the ANC govt, not giving money - "Here's a budget - build a world cup."

And I'm a cosmologist. Clap clap.

Most of our population lives in Squalor ?

Either you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word "most" or the word "squalor".

I have been to Germany and South Korea. Germany is a well functioning society. South Korea is a dump. But your belief that we should wait for some time in the future when we are affluent before we have a sense of self pride and the audasity to show off is idiotic. How do you suggest we ever get to first world status without putting ourselves into the equation ? How can we compete when there is so little positive opinion regarding Africa ? Are we so wrong to try ? As futile as that attempt to be respected may seem, it seems better than not trying at all. Do you disagree ?

 

[PeterCH]

Most of our population lives in Squalor ?

Yes MOST of the population live in squalor. You are joking with me?

Either you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word "most" or the word "squalor".

Most of the population are poor. And even our middle class is poor if you compare them to the middle class in Europe, Korea, Japan, North America.

I have been to Germany and South Korea. Germany is a well functioning society. South Korea is a dump.

You haven't been long enough and your observations are incorrect. Germany is a 4-5th economy in the world - incredibly rich with enough money to provide great services to its population. South Korea is not a dump. Sandton is a dump if you want to call SK a dump. South Korea is a very rich nation and it co-hosted a world cup with Japan - the second richest nation on earth - which also has some dumpy parts of itself - even Bill Gates has a garden shed with mildew on the doors somewhere at the back of his estate.

But your belief that we should wait for some time in the future when we are affluent before we have a sense of self pride and the audasity to show off is idiotic.

Since you don't personally suffer - you child did not die because there was no ambulance to take it to hospital or your 35 year old mother was not turned away from dialysis and given a death sentence speaks why you have such an opinion.

How do you suggest we ever get to first world status without putting ourselves into the equation ? How can we compete when there is so little positive opinion regarding Africa ? Are we so wrong to try ? As futile as that attempt to be respected may seem, it seems better than not trying at all. Do you disagree ?

How is having a world cup going to improve your perception?

How about telling Malema to shut up about nationalisation.
How about doing what Abu Dhabi is doing and not tax expats or allow low tax rates for investors or have no stupid BEE requirements for foreign companies?
How about improving the roads and safety/stability before spending money on extravaganzas?

Yes, I know austerity is not the ANC way.

 

[PeterCH]

Most of our population lives in Squalor ?

Yes MOST of the population live in squalor. You are joking with me?

Either you are misunderstanding the meaning of the word "most" or the word "squalor".

Most of the population are poor. And even our middle class is poor if you compare them to the middle class in Europe, Korea, Japan, North America.

I have been to Germany and South Korea. Germany is a well functioning society. South Korea is a dump.

You haven't been long enough and your observations are incorrect. Germany is a 4-5th economy in the world - incredibly rich with enough money to provide great services to its population. South Korea is not a dump. Sandton is a dump if you want to call SK a dump. South Korea is a very rich nation and it co-hosted a world cup with Japan - the second richest nation on earth - which also has some dumpy parts of itself - even Bill Gates has a garden shed with mildew on the doors somewhere at the back of his estate.

But your belief that we should wait for some time in the future when we are affluent before we have a sense of self pride and the audasity to show off is idiotic.

Since you don't personally suffer - you child did not die because there was no ambulance to take it to hospital or your 35 year old mother was not turned away from dialysis and given a death sentence speaks why you have such an opinion.

How do you suggest we ever get to first world status without putting ourselves into the equation ? How can we compete when there is so little positive opinion regarding Africa ? Are we so wrong to try ? As futile as that attempt to be respected may seem, it seems better than not trying at all. Do you disagree ?

How is having a world cup going to improve your perception?

How about telling Malema to shut up about nationalisation.
How about doing what Abu Dhabi is doing and not tax expats or allow low tax rates for investors or have no stupid BEE requirements for foreign companies?
How about improving the roads and safety/stability before spending money on extravaganzas?

Yes, I know austerity is not the ANC way.

 

[PeterCH]

And I'm a cosmologist. Clap clap.

It means I know what I speak of, unlike you. If you wanted commentary about ESKOM and an electrical engineer from ESKOM told you something, it would be more valuable than a visiting lay man. The fact that I have to explain this to you makes me think I'm wasting time trying to explain things to you. Enjoy the hype. May as well.

 

[Goldenrule]

Yes MOST of the population live in squalor. You are joking with me?


Most of the population are poor. And even our middle class is poor if you compare them to the middle class in Europe, Korea, Japan, North America.


You haven't been long enough and your observations are incorrect. Germany is a 4-5th economy in the world - incredibly rich with enough money to provide great services to its population. South Korea is not a dump. Sandton is a dump if you want to call SK a dump. South Korea is a very rich nation and it co-hosted a world cup with Japan - the second richest nation on earth - which also has some dumpy parts of itself - even Bill Gates has a garden shed with mildew on the doors somewhere at the back of his estate.


Since you don't personally suffer - you child did not die because there was no ambulance to take it to hospital or your 35 year old mother was not turned away from dialysis and given a death sentence speaks why you have such an opinion.



How is having a world cup going to improve your perception?

How about telling Malema to shut up about nationalisation.
How about doing what Abu Dhabi is doing and not tax expats or allow low tax rates for investors or have no stupid BEE requirements for foreign companies?
How about improving the roads and safety/stability before spending money on extravaganzas?

Yes, I know austerity is not the ANC way.

South Koreans live a terrible quality of life. Small dingy generic apartments that makes one think of stalinist Russia. Add to that an extremely high cost of living and terrible working hours and the poor South Koreans are probably the unhapiest people in the world (as their record suicide rates imply). I think Germany offers a good, if not for my taste ,stale quality of life.

None of this is relevant. You're trying to say South Africa shouldn't try better itself by showing what we can do. We should sit back like some basket case with low self esteem and hate ourselves until magically we emerge as a first world nation. Not going to happen my friend. How is this attitude going to uplift us from the third world ? We need to be progressive , fresh and proactive to improve our situation. Not negative and hyper critical to the extent we sabotage ourselves to fulfil old stale predictions. A massive marketing campaign is just the ticket if you ask me. Got a better idea ?

 

[LancelotSA]

I wonder why this thread has 79 posts already? You spend a day working and miss all the good stuff.

None of this is relevant. You're trying to say South Africa shouldn't try better itself by showing what we can do. We should sit back like some basket case with low self esteem and hate ourselves until magically we emerge as a first world nation. Not going to happen my friend. How is this attitude going to uplift us from the third world ? We need to be progressive , fresh and proactive to improve our situation. Not negative and hyper critical to the extent we sabotage ourselves to fulfil old stale predictions. A massive marketing campaign is just the ticket if you ask me. Got a better idea ?

Well said Goldenrule. Unfortunately as I have seen, from just the last few posts, as soon as someone chats about credit being given for a successful world cup (if this is the case) the topic will quickly be diverted to crime, housing, healthcare, or any other topic other than the one being discussed. We are unfortunately dealing with people who, from my experience, have plenty of experience deflecting the topic.