Create Apartheid parks to replace statues - Nzimande

ToxicBunny said:
As far as I'm aware, none of the statues being defaced had anythign to do with Apartheid at all...
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Granted, to us, however to the masses anything relating to before 1994 is classed as racist / colonialist and apartheid related. So then before it is obliterated forever perhaps it should be collected and moved to more appropriate locations, so that the history can be remembered so it can not be repeated. Call it what you will "The long walk to freedom Memorial Park" or Piet Snot's History Spot, as long as it is preserved and presented in the correct context.

If it eases their frustrations, then perhaps they can move on to actually building a nation, instead of trying to destroy one.
 
Sparhawk said:
I actually don't have a problem with calling it Apartheid Park. After all there are Holocaust Museums are there not. However putting everything in place will give certain people from both sides of the argument a place to rally. That could have issues.
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The Apartheid meseum has existed for years and there hasn't been issues, same as other monuments commemorating pre-94 personalities and events.
 
Galactica said:
The Apartheid meseum has existed for years and there hasn't been issues, same as other monuments commemorating pre-94 personalities and events.
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Perfect expand those grounds and add the statues there then. I had a look on their website:

http://www.apartheidmuseum.org/

at the bottom of the page is the following statement

"A HISTORY FORGOTTEN IS A FUTURE LOST"

This sums it up.
 
Sparhawk said:
Granted, to us, however to the masses anything relating to before 1994 is classed as racist / colonialist and apartheid related. So then before it is obliterated forever perhaps it should be collected and moved to more appropriate locations, so that the history can be remembered so it can not be repeated. Call it what you will "The long walk to freedom Memorial Park" or Piet Snot's History Spot, as long as it is preserved and presented in the correct context.

If it eases their frustrations, then perhaps they can move on to actually building a nation, instead of trying to destroy one.
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Baragwanath Hospital too?
http://www.chrishanibaragwanathhospital.co.za/history

What about Union Building?
 
What next after that? Apartheid camps for the white skins that reminds you of Apartheid? The reality is that nearly none of the statues represent Apartheid but many represents the arrival of Europeans and settlers in this country all with white skins so that must be the only real reason for the ANC and the majority of the populations anger and Apartheid is just used as another excuse to get back at the white skin people in this country. No matter if they were involved with Apartheid or not or were born before or after 1994 in this country, no other real reason! Where will all this end?
 
Galactica said:
The Apartheid meseum has existed for years and there hasn't been issues, same as other monuments commemorating pre-94 personalities and events.
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Thats also a reminder of the past. When will they destroy that? Simple question!
 
pam32 said:
Baragwanath Hospital too?
http://www.chrishanibaragwanathhospital.co.za/history

What about Union Building?
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Buildings can be repurposed to whoever is either the governing majority or for commercial usage. Statues cannot be re-purposed and still remain in the same location broadcasting the same message and glorifying whatever their deeds were in their lifetime. It is a symbol, and symbols can be both good and bad depending on your particular viewpoint. If people feel that a symbol is an insult to their beliefs in its current location then it should be removed, however I do not believe it should be destroyed as everything has a place in history and should be looked at and understood that this was the past, this is where we are now as a nation and this is were we need to be in the future.

Erasing history is a form of cultural genocide, how can we develop as a nation, even as a species if we do not look to the past and understand where we have come from to determine where we are going.
 
Pitbull said:
I have a great idea. ANC give 1/3 of the country no matter how rural or destitute to the white people. Let them go there if they want and those who stay are then part of SA. Those who move are not part of SA. Then you can stop your hatemongering and blaming apartheid on everything. Maybe just maybe the country can move forward then.
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Give Gauteng to the whites.
 
Drifter said:
Give Gauteng to the whites.
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No need. They can have it all. Give us the Karoo and some coastline, not unlike the palestinians, and in ten years we will prove the inevitable and have the best economy, Industrialization, army and food producing land in the whole of all the Southern Africa region if not the whole of Africa. We just take ALL our money with, no freebies handed to the #wantitallforfree crowd. There are many South Africans abroad in strong financial position to support our cause!
 
Why not an apartheid amusement park where you are free to throw whatever at any statue you desire? Can setup an apartheid villains whack-a-mole game as well
 
Maybe call em 'heritage parks'... all races can put whatever crap they want in em for their 'heritage', be it a tribal heritage or a colonial whatever. Point is, each get their own and as long as they are respected by others, future generations could learn a lot about all peoples in our country.
 
pam32 said:
Muti dens can be named after Chris Hani. It' black culture.

Western medicine is culturally foreign for blacks.
read here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine
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Of course Western Medicine is culturally foreign to African culture, but not through lack of trying but more through exclusion practices. How long did it take the Western world to develop decent health care as you know it, it was not so long ago that leeches were used to drain the body of flux and diseases, not so long ago that cocaine was given to babies to sooth teething. for the bulk of human history, different cultures employed various forms of tribal medicine.

In the expansion age when western powers were dividing up the world they displaced communities left right and center. Without a thought of what they were doing to eons of culture and tradition, supplanting local thoughts with their ideals and religious views. Naturally these explorers and colonists were viewed with both skepticism and distrust. Settlements were destroyed, people lost their lives, eventually "order" was enforced not through negotiation but through force of arms. We made them slaves, we made them second class citizens, we are reaping what has been sown.

Western thinking is normally forgive and forget, what happened in the past stays in the past. We are making the mistake thinking that our fellow South Africans should think along the same lines. It is not in their nature and possibly not in their culture to do so.
 
Sparhawk said:
Of course Western Medicine is culturally foreign to African culture, but not through lack of trying but more through exclusion practices. How long did it take the Western world to develop decent health care as you know it, it was not so long ago that leeches were used to drain the body of flux and diseases, not so long ago that cocaine was given to babies to sooth teething. for the bulk of human history, different cultures employed various forms of tribal medicine.
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BS Through lack of achieving anything more than huts, kraals and pretty (and sometime not so pretty) songs.

Blacks numbers increased exponentially during Apaat-Hate and so did their average life expectancy, this was mainly due to Western medicine and increased living standards.
 
Sparhawk said:
In the expansion age when western powers were dividing up the world they displaced communities left right and center. Without a thought of what they were doing to eons of culture and tradition, supplanting local thoughts with their ideals and religious views. Naturally these explorers and colonists were viewed with both skepticism and distrust. Settlements were destroyed, people lost their lives, eventually "order" was enforced not through negotiation but through force of arms. We made them slaves, we made them second class citizens, we are reaping what has been sown.
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So Apaat-Hate was right in creating homelands in the traditional areas where various ethnicities/cultures were historically concentrated so that they could practice their own various traditions, culture, values, ethics, norms, standards, language etc. etc. with an eye on complete sovereignty if so desired ?
 
etienne_marais said:
BS Through lack of achieving anything more than huts, kraals and pretty (and sometime not so pretty) songs.

Blacks numbers increased exponentially during Apaat-Hate and so did their average life expectancy, this was mainly due to Western medicine and increased living standards.
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Did we ever stop to ask them whether they were unhappy living in their huts and kraals and making up songs? Or did we just assumed they were so lets herd them else where for their own good, oh and by the way Piet this piece of land looks good to raise some cattle on, its yours now.
 
etienne_marais said:
So Apaat-Hate was right in creating homelands in the traditional areas where various ethnicities/cultures were historically concentrated so that they could practice their own various traditions, culture, values, ethics, norms, standards, language etc. etc. with an eye on complete sovereignty if so desired ?
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Was it done with them fully understanding the implications or was it done unethically with another agenda in mind.

Do not be blind to the past, Europeans came in ships with guns to take over the land and enslave the people. This was our nature back then.
 
Sparhawk said:
Was it done with them fully understanding the implications or was it done unethically with another agenda in mind.

Do not be blind to the past, Europeans came in ships with guns to take over the land and enslave the people. This was our nature back then.
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It was everyone's nature at that time. Europeans were not unique, they just happened to be superior in technology.
 
Sparhawk said:
Did we ever stop to ask them whether they were unhappy living in their huts and kraals and making up songs? Or did we just assumed they were so lets herd them else where for their own good, oh and by the way Piet this piece of land looks good to raise some cattle on, its yours now.
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Exactly, so their traditional areas should have been respected as opposed to the Unification of South Africa as promoted by Jan Hoffmeyer, Jan Smuts, Cecil John Rhodes and the influence of his kintergarden in which the white man was to rule supreme. The Boer Republics were created by both negotiation and conquest just like natives were in constant tribal warfare between themselves. It's the British who turned on their own empire with the Wind(s) Of Change speech and decolonization policy that left all in shambles without catering for the survival of the European descendent save fairy-tale pie in the sky integrationism which leaves no cultural grouping content and only English as a real official language.
 
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