Crime Stats

[jontyB]

for any insurance claim ( this can be the only basis for their stats ) the crime must be reported to the police, hospitals must report all deaths to the police, or else they can not release a body - so i am not sure where you get this from

Nonsense. Insurance companies are often confronted with situations where they pay out despite no case number been given - as SAPS gets inundated with more pressing issues and case dockets are not necessarily opened for crimes that can be unresolved.

Hospitals report deaths only as such - and not as murders, etc. Many hospital reported deaths are not investigated and as such may be considered suicides.

 

[jontyB]

and your source for this is ? or is this once again your perception, something forumites here are very fond of

I am in a position to be such a source. Naturally, your being the know-it-all on this forum negates all other opinions....

 

[xtermin8or]

Nonsense. Insurance companies are often confronted with situations where they pay out despite no case number been given - as SAPS gets inundated with more pressing issues and case dockets are not necessarily opened for crimes that can be unresolved.

Hospitals report deaths only as such - and not as murders, etc. Many hospital reported deaths are not investigated and as such may be considered suicides.

the problem with your argument is that it is based on speculation of what may or may not happen - argue with facts - and the only data we have is the official crime stats

 

[jontyB]

the problem with your argument is that it is based on speculation of what may or may not happen - argue with facts - and the only data we have is the official crime stats

*sigh*

whatever man. You are the omnipresent, all knowing big d1ck after all.

 

[xtermin8or]

*sigh*

whatever man. You are the omnipresent, all knowing big d1ck after all.

thank you, I know I'm big - now bow before me

 

[jontyB]

thank you, I know I'm big - now bow before me

pffft. el schmucko.

 

[JStrike]

jontyB : There is no need for personal attacks. Play the ball not the man

You said these stats weren't true, and he merely asked you what your source other than personal opinion was.
And no one said Utopia was near. You made that up yourself. There was a tiny decrease in murder by two percent

 

[RichardP]

LOL
on the SAPS web page ...

Report
Child Abuse
childprotect@saps.org.za

Is anyone reading these mails... or /dev/null is the mailbox

 

[jontyB]

jontyB : There is no need for personal attacks. Play the ball not the man

You said these stats weren't true, and he merely asked you what your source other than personal opinion was.
And no one said Utopia was near. You made that up yourself. There was a tiny decrease in murder by two percent

Dude. My gripe is with mr g0d complex - not you. As previously stated, I am in a position to be a source for such information - besides, if you actually read what I said I clearly wrote:

We have seen a steady increase in crime since the beginning of the year, and the past few weeks have seen a marked increase alone.

That obviously implies my involvement then does it not?



Besides, I'm tired of tip toeing around his issues - especially considering that he himself most often ignores requests from forum members. I don't feel like being mr nice guy anymore, and I am rather tired of the political lines being towed here.

 

[jontyB]

Oh, another thing... I said these stats weren't reflective - and it most certainly was not reflective of the last 6 months. Various SAPS members will tell you this if you ask them nice enough. I think that there is severe under reporting in this country, and it reflects in those stats.

 

[JStrike]

Sorry jontyB. Didn't see your post regarding your involvement

 

[Turtle]

the only data we have is the official crime stats

Yes and no, there are other meaningful and non-anecdotal measures of at least certain types of crime, e.g. "Car hijackings hit 5-year high": http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1993777,00.html

Apart from the obvious moratorium, there are other suggestions that crime may be being purposely covered up or played down or blatantly misreported:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060918014313979C750887
http://www.sabcnews.com/south_africa/crime1justice/0,2172,134921,00.html
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1973616,00.html
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=15&art_id=qw1159284420971B214

The question is whether you regard such things as isolated incidents, or the tip of an iceberg. Considering that our government has banned the releasing of actual crime statistics, I tend to think one doesn't hide something if you have no reason to hide it - if the stats really looked good, they would definitely release them and in detail.

A 2% decrease in murder over last year cannot be referred to as a trend by itself, it's noise .. just like if today is 2 degrees colder than yesterday, it doesn't mean there is a trend that it'll just keep getting colder. Anyway what's the per-capita murder rate? That is more meaningful. If AIDS has begun lowering the population now, for example, then the actual number of murders could lower even as the murder rate increases. (If the population is 2% less than last year this time, then the murder rate has remained constant, not decreased. Conversely if the population has increased, then the murder rate may be really decreasing.)

 

[jontyB]

FYI: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1157470922860B265 & http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1993777,00.html obviously these are in stark contrast to the crime stats.

 

[pupa]

FYI: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1157470922860B265 & http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_1993777,00.html obviously these are in stark contrast to the crime stats.

I feel for you JontyB; these race zeolots is well brainwashed by their own party. They will make out these facts is presented by the DA for political gain as well as by Insurnce company's for financial gain. Anything to befoogle other readers brains and in this country that does not take much to do so!

He called on Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula to explain his claim that "at least 76 of the 96 identified crime syndicate leaders have been arrested in the past six months"

Why does this sound suspect! Lies again by the low intelect as :
If he knows about the other 20 (nice round numbers) Why are they not arrested or pamphlets posted to ID them and let the public help? What about the hundreds he maybe does not even know about????

 

[jontyB]

@pupa:
Ek is so moeg vir die k@k. En wat my moer regtig strip is die houding van sommige mense. Hulle is so vinnig om deur hulle gatte te praat maar doen f0kkol om te help, kritiseer net as jy iets slegs oor die k@k regering te se het.

 

[xtermin8or]

Oh, another thing... I said these stats weren't reflective - and it most certainly was not reflective of the last 6 months. Various SAPS members will tell you this if you ask them nice enough. I think that there is severe under reporting in this country, and it reflects in those stats.

the crime stats released today are until March or the 2005/06 financial year,so the last six months are not reflected, that is kind of obvious from the beginning of the thread.

Exactly what is your position that makes you a source on the issue ? Just asking nicely to clear it up in my mind

 

[pupa]

@pupa:
Ek is so moeg vir die k@k. En wat my moer regtig strip is die houding van sommige mense. Hulle is so vinnig om deur hulle gatte te praat maar doen f0kkol om te help, kritiseer net as jy iets slegs oor die k@k regering te se het.

Hulle het so baie om weg te steek en dan soek hulle redes vir hulle lae morale en swak regeringskap, wie anders is daar om te blameer en verwyt as die wittes of hulle nou wel apartheid geimplementeer het of nie. Ons was in die gemors of ons saamgestem het al dan nie! Maar nou ja vir ons is dit net kniel of waai. Ek vekies die laaste!

 

[pupa]

the crime stats released today are until March or the 2005/06 financial year,so the last six months are not reflected, that is kind of obvious from the beginning of the thread.

Exactly what is your position that makes you a source on the issue ? Just asking nicely to clear it up in my mind

Moenie die Zealot enige inligting gee nie, Hy vis om uit te vind waar jy is en hoe jy die goed weet. hier was 'n persoon voorheen en hy is nou weg ek vermoed agv dieselfde klonte!

 

[jontyB]

Moenie die Zealot enige inligting gee nie, Hy vis om uit te vind waar jy is en hoe jy die goed weet. hier was 'n persoon voorheen en hy is nou weg ek vermoed agv dieselfde klonte!

Nie eers gesien nie. Ek het hom in my ignoreer lys gesit. Sal my nie eers verbaas nie. Sien elke dag allerande k@k wt weggesteek word.

 

[JStrike]

jontyB : Many people want to help. But they get tired of people just critisising without any intent to help the situation.

pupa : And calling somone a Zealot just because he would like a bit more detail as to jontyB information. I assume it is insurance, but asking him doesn't make anyone a Zealot. But that is what it has come down to with you. Just start calling people names and bellittling them for no justifiable reason