Crime tolerance

[xtermin8or]

in this country, we are far too tolerant towards crime, we lament the high rate of crime in the country, yet we accept smaller crimes

we buy pirated DVDs

see someone pissing against a wall, ja so what

constantly break the rules of the road

we have to get tough on crime at all levels, we have to show criminals in all shapes and forms that they will not be accepted as a part of this society

In My Humble Opinion - this is one way we can deal with the problem

petty criminals become career criminals, and that is where our problem is.

 

[kilo39]

No - the problem comes from condoning criminality at the top:

yengini = marsha stewart
sabotage
travelgate
public service corruption
non-performing governance

- all criminality - all condoned - DEATH - condoned - let them free - condoned...

when the warders are criminals then no one is free

 

[xtermin8or]

do you really think that rooting out corruption in Government is going to make hardcore criminals afraid - we have to stop the youth from getting involved in crime - and thinking it's a good life and moving on to bigger things

 

[PeekNPoke]

in this country, we are far too tolerant towards crime, we lament the high rate of crime in the country, yet we accept smaller crimes

we buy pirated DVDs

see someone pissing against a wall, ja so what

constantly break the rules of the road

we have to get tough on crime at all levels, we have to show criminals in all shapes and forms that they will not be accepted as a part of this society

In My Humble Opinion - this is one way we can deal with the problem

petty criminals become career criminals, and that is where our problem is.

100% agree ...

The other evening I was throwing in petrol at the garage, a guy in a very expensive merc stopped at the shop with no number plates on.

The guy next to me (also filling up) said that this pisses him off also. I walked over to this guy in the merc and ask him where his number plate was, he got really upset with me as I was taking a firm stand on it. He ended his phone conversation (was also driving and chatting on the phone when he pitched up) by saying to the person on the other end "come now".

I knew there was trouble. It wasn't 5 min and 4 cars pitch up. I was still arguing with the guy to put his number plate on. The bunch of guy’s surrounded me (a few had bats with them). I looked back at the guy that was filling up next to me, everybody left, can you believe that ! The guy that was filling up my car was hiding behind it.

Luckily the police pitched up (they normally stop there for coffee) and I explained the story to them. The bunch of guy’s started calling ma a racist and that I was drunk and that I called them names (seriously, I was alone, there’s no way I’ll call 12 to 15 guy’s names and definitely not if they were armed). I finally got into my car while the police was busy with the oaks and drove off. I seriously glad nothing happened to me.

The moral of the story is that to do something about crime, you have to stand together. I could’ve been a statistic.

 

[Dave A]

I have to support xtermin8or on this one. Examining the criminal hotspots around the world, it tends to start with sleaze.

What is interesting is how New York City turned it all around. They focused on cleaning out the sleaze and the more hard core criminal stuff withered as well.

 

[icyrus]

It would be a start. New York's zero tolerance (broken windows) program produced results so such a program could work here.

The main problem remains enforcement. We could come up with thousands of theoretical programs to reduce crime but if nothing is done by those in charge to implement and enforce those programs it doesn't matter.

This is a priority but isn't treated as one by our government.

 

[jontyB]

to echo what icyrus is saying: enforcement. There are not enough cops to enforce the ideals. As far as PeeknPokes tale is concerned: what would have happened if the cops did not rock up? Standing up to someone over numberplates would seem like an innocent but right thing to do, but that did not stop the owner of the merc from getting his buddies to come along and forcibly defend him.

As far as kilo's point is concerned: it is entirely valid. Why should petty criminals be punished when senior officials in government get away with so much? Zero Tolerance (and not just in words by our Jack in the Box president) on corruption and crime is the only way to sort out crime in SA.

So what do you do xtermin8or?

 

[Leitmotif]

The answer is in personal protection. Read: guns.

Since the Firearms Control Act was implemented in 2004, a massive amount of firearms have been taken from gun-owners. These are legal owners of firearms, not skabengas out there with illegal AKs. Legal firearms owners contribute to 0.05% of all crime. Insignificant. However, disarmed people make wonderful targets. Hence the massive increase in violent crime. When you know your victim is almost cretainly not going to have a legal method of defense, you can act with impunity. When you know the people around can't help, you can act with impunity.

Almost every time that a licensed gun owner stands up to criminals, the criminals are either killed, incapacitated, or run away. The difference is training. Guns are tools of fear. Criminals expect us to fear them if we cannot defend ourselves, which is the state for which our government is striving. Criminals will only fear us if we are armed again.

The government is spending 2 BILLION RANDS of your money to make you more vulnerable. It has denied almost every request made for a license since 2004. An application takes about 2 years, and self-defense is considered insufficient reason to own a weapon. Our impotent police force is supposed to protect us, but they are not given sufficient training, equipment or manpower.

The safety and security minister wishes us to stand with our police force and help curb crime. Sure, but if we could defend ourselves it would be a start. Our police commisioner is a political appointment who has no idea what it's like to be a police officer. Our gun law is based on laws that have since been scrapped as unworkable, expensive and counterproductive in the countries where they originated. They are sponsored by foreign-funded groups who have no idea what it's like on the streets of SA.

Change the law. Arm the populace. The rest will follow.

 

[Vio]

The answer is in personal protection. Read: guns.

Since the Firearms Control Act was implemented in 2004, a massive amount of firearms have been taken from gun-owners. These are legal owners of firearms, not skabengas out there with illegal AKs. Legal firearms owners contribute to 0.05% of all crime. Insignificant. However, disarmed people make wonderful targets. Hence the massive increase in violent crime. When you know your victim is almost cretainly not going to have a legal method of defense, you can act with impunity. When you know the people around can't help, you can act with impunity.

Almost every time that a licensed gun owner stands up to criminals, the criminals are either killed, incapacitated, or run away. The difference is training. Guns are tools of fear. Criminals expect us to fear them if we cannot defend ourselves, which is the state for which our government is striving. Criminals will only fear us if we are armed again.

The government is spending 2 BILLION RANDS of your money to make you more vulnerable. It has denied almost every request made for a license since 2004. An application takes about 2 years, and self-defense is considered insufficient reason to own a weapon. Our impotent police force is supposed to protect us, but they are not given sufficient training, equipment or manpower.

The safety and security minister wishes us to stand with our police force and help curb crime. Sure, but if we could defend ourselves it would be a start. Our police commisioner is a political appointment who has no idea what it's like to be a police officer. Our gun law is based on laws that have since been scrapped as unworkable, expensive and counterproductive in the countries where they originated. They are sponsored by foreign-funded groups who have no idea what it's like on the streets of SA.

Change the law. Arm the populace. The rest will follow.

I absolutely agree. Tresspasers will be shot..., repeatedly. -> problem solved.

 

[spiderz]

I absolutely agree. Tresspasers will be shot..., repeatedly. -> problem solved.

"Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again."

I totally agree that they must scrap the FCA and give give every capable person a firearm or 2.

What do you use a handgun for?
To fight your way open to the safe so you can get to the REAL guns!

 

[xtermin8or]

As far as kilo's point is concerned: it is entirely valid. Why should petty criminals be punished when senior officials in government get away with so much? Zero Tolerance (and not just in words by our Jack in the Box president) on corruption and crime is the only way to sort out crime in SA.

I am saying that all criminals should be punished, so whether you spray grafitti on my walls ( a growing prob in my area ) or hijack a car you should be punished - what I'm saying is that we should stop the progression from petty crime to career crime

Govt officials are being punished for their corruption, Tony Yengeni, travelgate etc

 

[spiderz]

Punish the criminals in a fitting way. Shoving the whole lot into a jail only makes them better criminals. (networking and all) ok, some criminals need to be locked up and the key thrown away. (since we don't have a death sentence anymore).

Make the buggers work. Bright orange overalls next to the N1 or where every cleaning the side of the road or some other labour intensive actions. Maybe building RDP housing or something.
Make them work for the time they have to spend in jail. Make them do something that can benefit the rest of the country.

Currently they have a free ride on our tax money! Freeloaders!!

 

[kilo39]

in this country, we are far too tolerant towards crime, we lament the high rate of crime in the country, yet we accept smaller crimes

we buy pirated DVDs

see someone pissing against a wall, ja so what

constantly break the rules of the road

we have to get tough on crime at all levels, we have to show criminals in all shapes and forms that they will not be accepted as a part of this society

In My Humble Opinion - this is one way we can deal with the problem

petty criminals become career criminals, and that is where our problem is.

I have never bought stolen goods and never will - including dvd's. Pissing against the wall is usually an emergency - or no facilities available. Break the rules of the road? Only where I can safely at all times. (No numberplates is unacceptable.)

I do not condone crime on any level. (Except stupid laws that shouldn't exist - and last I looked speeding wasn't a criminal offence)... but lack of moral direction - lack of leadership - sets no example on any level - therefore how can you expect the lowest level to comply (a willing contract - million police will never be enough - and I don't want to live in a police state - again.)

It's called LEADERSHIP of which we have none.

 

[JStrike]

xtermin8or : You are right. It is called the "broken window syndrome" iirc. New York used it to great effect

 

[Alan]

The problem is the rights of criminal outweighing that of the victim. This liberal ideal of a criminal somehow being a bigger victim.

For example, this insane excuse that poverty leads someone to murder another person for his shoes,cellphone or whatever.

 

[JStrike]

Cant say I agree about the guns. I want to live in a country without guns. If that means starting with the citizens, then so be it. Less guns for the robbers to steal. Problem is that then the only people with guns will be the robbers. But that is a price we must pay for a short while

 

[reech]

in this country, we are far too tolerant towards crime, we lament the high rate of crime in the country, yet we accept smaller crimes

we buy pirated DVDs

see someone pissing against a wall, ja so what

constantly break the rules of the road

we have to get tough on crime at all levels, we have to show criminals in all shapes and forms that they will not be accepted as a part of this society

In My Humble Opinion - this is one way we can deal with the problem

petty criminals become career criminals, and that is where our problem is.

True, however when a poorly paid public servant sees yengeni / ANC top dog with his sticky fingers in the cookie jar it makes it a lot easier for him to justify taking bribes. Our leaders should set the (right) example.

 

[spiderz]

Cant say I agree about the guns. I want to live in a country without guns. If that means starting with the citizens, then so be it. Less guns for the robbers to steal. Problem is that then the only people with guns will be the robbers. But that is a price we must pay for a short while

Is that the same country where booze is free and the women are easy?

And why do you want to rely on someone else for your personal safety? Goverments can't be trusted to protect their citizens, the citizens must arm and protect themselves agains goverment and all criminal elements.

Nowhere in the world have gun control EVER worked. Canada just abandoned their gun regestry. In the UK crime is soaring to all time highs (like in SA)

/end rant/

 

[icyrus]

Cant say I agree about the guns. I want to live in a country without guns. If that means starting with the citizens, then so be it. Less guns for the robbers to steal. Problem is that then the only people with guns will be the robbers. But that is a price we must pay for a short while

It would be foolish to want to live in a country without guns while they still exist in the world. I would feel decidedly uncomfortable with the government (any government) being the only one with guns.

 

[xtermin8or]

The problem is the rights of criminal outweighing that of the victim. This liberal ideal of a criminal somehow being a bigger victim.

For example, this insane excuse that poverty leads someone to murder another person for his shoes,cellphone or whatever.

I believed the poverty causes crime argument for a long time, and I still believe it has some merit, my problem is that crimes of neccesity will/have become an industry - therefore my concern of career criminals -

The violent nature of crime in our country point to this - criminals want us to be so afraid of them that we offer no resistance - and sadly, it is often foolish to resist.

that's why I say lets nab the petty criminals - make it scary to do crime again