Crystal Web (NEW ISP) ADSL Feedback

Status
Not open for further replies.
@bumbledore You won't have much luck posting the result here. You must provide the info to the online support on the website. They will provide you with help.
 
RoMark said:
@bumbledore You won't have much luck posting the result here. You must provide the info to the online support on the website. They will provide you with help.
Click to expand...

Hi RoMark,

Am busy with support right now... but they're asking me if I have power cycled my router... I don't think that's the problem though!

Edit: being escalated right now. After sales support seems very good, but not a good way to start a new subscription, methinks.
 
bumbledore said:
Hi RoMark,

Am busy with support right now... but they're asking me if I have power cycled my router... I don't think that's the problem though!

Edit: being escalated right now. After sales support seems very good, but not a good way to start a new subscription, methinks.
Click to expand...
I also had some issues today, but the power dropped and with reboot it was actually a lot better.
The account normally behaves very well. We have a bit of an issue in the EC, but not enough to put me off at this stage.
 
I'm afraid that we have zero control over what happens at hop 2 on the exchange. Occasionally users switch accounts and see no packet loss and assume that it's something to do with the ISP, when in fact 90% of the time it's pure coincidence, as congestion is one of those fluctuating and unpredictable things, and the other 10% there may actually be something faulty with the Telkom network equipment causing odd results. In fact less than 10% I'd say.

If we had some power to take control over that aspect of the connection we would, and try to resolve it.

Moreover, packet loss at an exchange will only result in further packet loss through the rest of the hops on a tracert.
 
Crystal Web said:
I'm afraid that we have zero control over what happens at hop 2 on the exchange. Occasionally users switch accounts and see no packet loss and assume that it's something to do with the ISP, when in fact 90% of the time it's pure coincidence, as congestion is one of those fluctuating and unpredictable things, and the other 10% there may actually be something faulty with the Telkom network equipment causing odd results. In fact less than 10% I'd say.

If we had some power to take control over that aspect of the connection we would, and try to resolve it.

Moreover, packet loss at an exchange will only result in further packet loss through the rest of the hops on a tracert.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but 5% of packet loss should hardly be detectable in browsing. The 3-5% is consistent across all hops.

There is 100% packet loss at hop 5, and hop 5 only. Why?
 
bumbledore said:
Fair enough, but 5% of packet loss should hardly be detectable in streaming. The 3-5% is consistent across all hops.

There is 100% packet loss at hop 5, and hop 5 only. Why?
Click to expand...

if every 5 of your 100 packets are having to be resent at the exchange already, it's pretty significant. It may seem like a small relative number, but the way networks handle packets (and specific types of packets) makes some protocols more susceptible to this sort of packet loss than others.

When you see 100% packet loss, it means one of two things:

1) you have zero throughput from that point on
2) that server is not setup to respond to ICMP packet relay requests properly or at all, which doesn't affect throughput - it only impacts the test

The latter being the most likely.
 
I'm also on support right now with packet loss. I can switch between ISPs every minute and test, each time WA is good and CW is lossy. There really seems to be something going on.
 
Aessa said:
I'm also on support right now with packet loss. I can switch between ISPs every minute and test, each time WA is good and CW is lossy. There really seems to be something going on.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Despite their being some packet loss, my ping on hop 2 is < 20ms, which according to Laurie Falkov (cybersmart CEO), is fine. If the ping were say, 180ms, then sure exchange congestion is the only thing to blame.

However, consistently, without fail, there is no packet loss on WA / MTN based accounts. And that's with repeated switching, so as to try as hard as possible to eliminate the variable of chance....
 
bumbledore said:
Exactly. Despite their being some packet loss, my ping on hop 2 is < 20ms, which according to Laurie Falkov (cybersmart CEO), is fine. If the ping were say, 180ms, then sure exchange congestion is the only thing to blame.

However, consistently, without fail, there is no packet loss on WA / MTN based accounts. And that's with repeated switching, so as to try as hard as possible to eliminate the variable of chance....
Click to expand...

Just because switching shows a different result on hop 2 does not indicate that the issue is with the ISP. It quite physically cannot be. That is not our network, so it still indicates something that needs to be reported to Telkom.

Try to understand from our perspective when trying to offer support - it's a troubleshooting game - there isn't a switch that we can flick that says "no more packet loss", so we have to eliminate possible problems. When a glaringly obvious issue of packet loss exists, it's necessary to understand where it is happening, so tracerts and pathpings show this to us. When the issue starts at the second hop, while we'd love to fix it, we simply cannot. There's no mechanism for us to go and make changes to Telkom's network in any way whatsoever.

Ping response times are also not the best check, as response times may be okay, but packets are dropping, which is why we ask for better and more accurate pathpings or mtr tests. I'm quite sure Laurie could have written a book on the multitude of problems, but instead was asked a specific question and as with any form of journalism, had his answer condensed.

You must realise that we get as frustrated with this nonsense of congestion as anyone else. Probably more. We effectively have to spend our days diagnosing another company's problems, and spend ages trying to explain to customers the intricate details of congestion when it's spotted, and we're expected to fix it. It frustrates the living daylights out of me personally, as we want nothing more than a working last mile for everyone. Support could actually focus on our network rather than becoming an extension of Telkom's instead.

However when congestion or line-related issues are picked up, we will immediately ask for that to be rectified, or a test at another time to be performed without the congestion or line troubles. When something as fundamental as line or exchange troubles is present, it's nigh on impossible for us to identify any subsequent problems properly unless it too is blatantly obvious to us, in which case we'll sort it out.

Also remember that routing and networking don't happen at the account level, but at the wider network level. So it's highly unlikely that the issue is specific to your account - either we have a general problem, or in all likelihood Telkom has a general problem or one specific to your area, exchange, or line. It should also be noted that hops after the second are not all on Crystal Web's network. You'll often see the packets peer off onto another ISP's network - this is called peering. So while it's easy to look at a tracert with a novice's eye and think "my ISP has problems" it's often far more complicated than that, and requires deeper interrogation on a far deeper level. A trace can help to identify a possible problem - it doesn't necessarily mean that one exists.

My final word on this, is that congestion is a tricky beast to negotiate. It is by the nature of it, unpredictable and variable in extent. One minute it's congested; the next it's not. We do everything we can to help, and we actively avoid blaming an exchange as far as humanly possible. But it's necessary for one to eliminate that as a possible source of problems if it exists, before an ISP can properly diagnose any other non-glaringly obvious problems in the routing. If you say, my streaming is buffering, and we test and exchange congestion is identified, it's very difficult to move past that point and then attempt to diagnose something wrong with the account or the network in general. And if one were able to do so, it would be a very technical process, and not one that first line support could manage, as there would need to be an analysis of connection qualities on the various input and output stats we have, which requires some rather specialised skills and an understanding of how the packets are managed by the particular systems in place.

So I extend my sympathies to those with issues at their exchange - I really do, but it's not something we can fix, and not something we can overlook as being the cause of the problems.

Tl;DR analogy:

As a basic analogy, imagine a stream of water flowing from a tap, into a drain. You observe from down by the drain that it's dripping and not flowing properly, and ask a plumber to fix it. The plumber says something is stuck inside your tap itself causing the water to flow poorly, but it cannot be removed because the manufacturer sealed the unit. If you insist that the problem has nothing to do with the stuff stuck inside the tap, and ask the plumber to diagnose and fix other possible problems, he's in all likelihood not going to be able to help you much at all, no matter what he tries, and no matter what he tests, because the fundamental problem with the water flow is happening elsewhere. But you tell him when you switch on the hot water tap it flows better - there's no logical explanation for it - the plumber will still tell you to have the manufacturer fix the fundamental problem first before he can really move on, otherwise you need to replace it entirely.

That's about as basic but accurate an analogy I can think of right now to help explain the problems we face when asked to "fix" a customer's connection where clear evidence of a blockage in the tap exists. I really do hope that this helps to explain from our perspective why we ask you to run these tedious tests, and why it's incredibly difficult for us to "fix" things where the fundamental problem appears off our network. :)
 
@CW.

IS THE DEMONS GOING TO KILL ME OR AM I GOING TO KILL THE DEMONS?

IS THE LATENCY MONSTER KILLED?
 
Are we really doing the caps lock thing? :D

I'm not in the office so I can't test gaming. I'm still not sure how Diablo works though - apparently all you do is go around clicking your mouse button on things, so even if I tested I'm not sure I'd be doing it right. :o

:D
 
Crystal Web said:
ARE WE REALLY DOING THE CAPS LOCK THING? :D

I'M NOT IN THE OFFICE SO I CAN'T TEST GAMING. I'M STILL NOT SURE HOW DIABLO WORKS THOUGH - APPARENTLY ALL YOU DO IS GO AROUND CLICKING YOUR MOUSE BUTTON ON THINGS, SO EVEN IF I TESTED I'M NOT SURE I'D BE DOING IT RIGHT. :o

:D
Click to expand...

I WILL REPORT BACK IF I WAS KILLED BY THE LATENCY MONSTER OR I LIVED ANOTHER DAY :D
 
if i get the one that gives me +-100gb unsharped data
the 799 one 10mbps

will torrents be shaped b4 12 or only if i used all my unshaped data?
 
sybertiger said:
if i get the one that gives me +-100gb unsharped data
the 799 one 10mbps

will torrents be shaped b4 12 or only if i used all my unshaped data?
Click to expand...

unsharped data is a custom deal...


* yoda voice *


you seek paul
 
sybertiger said:
if i get the one that gives me +-100gb unsharped data
the 799 one 10mbps

will torrents be shaped b4 12 or only if i used all my unshaped data?
Click to expand...

That one gives you 200 gigs of data before account shaping starts. Before the shaping however, p2p will go great guns. :D
 
sounds good :D
tobad i can only move to you next month :(
and need to fix my EFT app on my phone

but gonna go to you guys next month,
Unless u guys give me 99% off the 1st month
*wink*
:P
 
@Crystalweb - As this thread is nearing the 10k mark, we will have to close it, and start a new thread.

Will this be OK with you guys if I close this and start a new one?
 
The_Librarian said:
@Crystalweb - As this thread is nearing the 10k mark, we will have to close it, and start a new thread.

Will this be OK with you guys if I close this and start a new one?
Click to expand...

We'll start a new one before the 10k mark, promise. Next week some time. ;)
 
just got onemore question

lets say i get the 200gb and its not all used and i download after 12

does it take from the 200gb or not
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X