Cyberwarfare with US versus China

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Cyberwarfare: US versus China

China is building its cyberwarfare capabilities and appears to be using the growing technical abilities to collect U.S. intelligence through a sophisticated and long-term computer attack campaign, according to an independent report.
 
I watched a documentary about this, very good and seems that in 2012-2015, the Chinese are planning to attack the US using all the information that has been harvested for the last 10 yrs.
The US knows that China has been harvesting the info.
 
Except at that point the Chinese will most likely have strongholds in every continent except for the US.
 
The docu is called "Web Warriors"
Is about this topic

So is my post? :confused:

They can detect all the harvested information they like, at the end of the day, the east are making serious inroads to all undeveloped sectors of the globe.
 
Can anyone here still remember all the media report/coverage, US intelligence report about the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction before the US invasion, and what happened afterward?

Why doesn't anyone here worry about the possibility Microsoft has backdoor on every single computer using their system, Cisco has a remote switch to swich all of their essential network hardware in the 'other' country when needed to disable network connection?

It's all conspiracy theory, if not something fabricated by US army so they have a reason to increase their budget.
 
It's no theory...

Ministers have been warned that a new £10bn communications network being developed by BT is vulnerable to a potential attack from within the Communist state because it uses equipment supplied by Chinese telecoms firm Huawei.

...

The Whitehall meeting heard that Huawei components that form key parts of BT's new network might already contain malicious elements that could be activated by China and which could "remotely disrupt or even permanently disable the network", according to a report. Such action would have a "significant impact on critical services" such as power and water supplies, food distribution, the financial system and transport, which were dependent on computers using the communications network to operate.

An attempt by Huawei to merge with United States company 3Com, which provides computer security systems for the Pentagon, was blocked last year after US intelligence officials warned that it would not be in national security interests. The Pentagon is reported to believe Huawei is a key part of the potential threat from China and has close ties with the People's Liberation Army.

However, a telecom industry source said: "There must be millions of systems containing Chinese technology all over the world the BT network wouldn't be more or less vulnerable than any other." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ers-from-China-intelligence-experts-warn.html

Yep...Just keep smiling and relax...no problem here...please look the other way... :rolleyes:

In April it emerged that Chinese hackers have stolen data related to design and electronics systems on the $300bn ( £186bn) US Joint Strike Fighter programme being developed by Lockheed Martin and British Aerospace.

Rolls Royce, which manufactures engines for the Typhoon Eurofighter and Britain's nuclear submarines, had its computer systems breached in 2007.

In March researchers uncovered an electronic spy ring called GhostNet based in China, which searches computers for information, taps into emails and turns on web cameras and microphones.

It is said to have infected "high value targets" in 103 countries.

Similar incidents have also breached the US Air Force air-traffic-control system in recent months and Chinese hackers are also said to have hacked into parts of America's electricity grid. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/5637243/Hackers-recruited-to-fight-new-cold-war.html

Keep looking the other way... ;)

The discovery of GhostNet, which is designed to infiltrate sensitive ministries and embassies - and is known to have succeeded in many cases - is the latest sign of China's determination to win a future "information war". A ten-month investigation by the Munk Centre for International Studies in Toronto has revealed that GhostNet not only searches computers for information and taps their emails, but also turns them into giant listening devices.

Once a computer has been infected, hackers can turn on its web camera and microphones and record any conversations within range.

...

The report added: "China has made steady progress in recent years in developing offensive nuclear, space and cyber-warfare capabilities, the only aspects of China's armed forces that, today, have the potential to be truly global."

The Chinese government decided long ago to make control of information a central plank of the country's policy. At the 10th National People's Congress, in 2003, the Chinese army announced the creation of "information warfare units". General Dai Qingmin said internet attacks would run in advance of any military operation to cripple enemies. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...etwork-GhostNet-penetrates-103-countries.html

"Thanks to modern technology, such as the development of information carriers and the Internet, many can now take part in fighting without even having to step out of the door," noted Wei Jincheng, a military strategist, in the Liberation Army Daily newspaper in 1996.

"The rapid development of networks has turned each automated system into a potential target of invasion. The fact that information technology is increasingly relevant to people's lives means that those who take part in information war are not all soldiers and anybody who understands computers can become a 'fighter' on the network. The public can participate," he said.

His idea was adopted by the highest levels of command. Major-General Wang Pufeng, the former director of strategy at Beijing's military academy, noted: "In the near future, information warfare will control the form and future of war".

In recent years, China has tried to spy on Pentagon computers, using a cyber-espionage ring codenamed Titan Rain and hackers have been active against computers from Britain to Japan and Taiwan. China has also tried to blind a US satellite using lasers.

"While it remains easy to measure the intent of troop deployments, the intent of a Chinese electron is harder to measure," said Lt-Col Timothy Thomas, the author of a book on China's use of cyber-warfare. "A weaker force can inflict much damage on a superior force with a properly timed and precisely defined information attack," he added. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ying-as-area-where-it-can-defeat-America.html

'Unhappy China' bestseller claims Beijing should 'lead the world'
A new book claiming that China is a victim of Western bullying and "should rise up and lead the world" has soared to the top of the country's bestseller list.

The five authors of the book advocate a tougher line against China's enemies, including punishment for President Nicholas Sarkozy of France, who met the Dalai Lama last year. The book takes a robust view of Western criticism of China's behaviour in Tibet. "You can start a war if you have the guts, otherwise shut up!" it says. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ler-claims-Beijing-should-lead-the-world.html

Keep looking the other way... :cool:
 
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Cyberwarfare: US versus China

China is building its cyberwarfare capabilities and appears to be using the growing technical abilities to collect U.S. intelligence through a sophisticated and long-term computer attack campaign, according to an independent report.

Are they at such loggerheads? I know they detest one another but probably diplomatic snubbing and insults are as far as they’ll go. China would not risk a burgeoning mercantile business. No-one (even allies) would trust their software. Massively severe commercial penalties for a nation. Screwing-up exports in a growing field? Not likely.

It sounds like preparatory work for restricting the Internet in the name of “National Security’ by scare mongering.
 
There are two things here. 1. Is rightful fear of Chinese espionage. China will not attack the United States - it has no reason to do so, its military doctrine is not expansionistic at this stage - heck they have no navy, no capable airforce and won't be attacking anyone except perhaps Taiwan any time soon. Espionage is a rightful concern and businessem and diplomats travelling to China are also exposed to this risk. Chinese made products and Chinese expats working in the West have been involved in espionage activities before. China is just as paranoid. China also does not trust Windows and are pushing for their own version of Linux. They may also embark on writing their own operating systems.
2. Paranoia and sensationalism. Either intentional - though a series of government leaks to boost defense spending in the US, UK, etc and sensationalism by docu makers - and they ALWAYS hype up their stories. A war in 2015? Nonsense.
 
China also does not trust Windows and are pushing for their own version of Linux. They may also embark on writing their own operating systems.

This is a powerful argument for open source software (like Linux). Then anyone can use the software because they can examine the source code for espionage mischief. Stringent quality control (global) without the need and expense of re-inventing the wheel. It’ll be much better software than any one nation can come-up with.
 
There are two things here. 1. Is rightful fear of Chinese espionage. China will not attack the United States - it has no reason to do so, its military doctrine is not expansionistic at this stage - heck they have no navy, no capable airforce and won't be attacking anyone except perhaps Taiwan any time soon. Espionage is a rightful concern and businessem and diplomats travelling to China are also exposed to this risk. Chinese made products and Chinese expats working in the West have been involved in espionage activities before. China is just as paranoid. China also does not trust Windows and are pushing for their own version of Linux. They may also embark on writing their own operating systems.
2. Paranoia and sensationalism. Either intentional - though a series of government leaks to boost defense spending in the US, UK, etc and sensationalism by docu makers - and they ALWAYS hype up their stories. A war in 2015? Nonsense.

Thats what they said about germany. And the chines do have a good army and do have a navy.
 
Thats what they said about germany. And the chines do have a good army and do have a navy.

Well Germany has had a track record of invading its neighbours - Partition of Poland, Franco-Prussian War, World War I. China does have a record of fighting with its neighbours but neither Germany nor China dreamed of laning in California or on the East Coast. On the other hand the Chinese army is numerous but so was Saddam Hussein's army and China has no 'blue water' navy (google it). Secondly, the USA is far away - do you expect China to make a D-Day landing in California then? China could create an army of a 100 million men, sure, but where would they put them and how? It would be easy to sink that 100 million into the ocean if they launched a 19th century like Armada against the US. We live in an age where one cruise missile could sink an entire troop ship. The US has bases in SEA and Pacific and can use submarines, bombers, cruise missiles and fighter-bombers to take out any Chinese fleet which decides to threaten US interests in the region. 1 million or 100 million they'd all drown equally in the sea.

A Chinese attack on the United States is impossible, even if they pooled all their resources China - some estimates say - would need 50 years to catch up to the US in terms of the navy alone assuming the US would stand still in that regard - and even then what - put troops ashore in California? I mean this is a science-fiction scenario but they'd get blown out of the water in their millions in the Pacific - I don't foresee them taking Taiwan if the US were to guard that island, let alone the US homeland which is untouchable.
 
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And the chines do have a good army....

I feel you should factor Chinese military doctrine into your equation. During the Cold War, the Chinese modelled their army on the USSR. This involves a massively centralised command structure, initiative was penalised. The West was the opposite. When the Chinese army are involved in activities where a centralised command structure is an advantage (earthquakes, floods, etc.) they excel (and the West suck). In a confrontation where the West is targeting lines of communication etc., the shoe may be on the other foot.
 
I feel you should factor Chinese military doctrine into your equation. During the Cold War, the Chinese modelled their army on the USSR. This involves a massively centralised command structure, initiative was penalised. The West was the opposite. When the Chinese army are involved in activities where a centralised command structure is an advantage (earthquakes, floods, etc.) they excel (and the West suck). In a confrontation where the West is targeting lines of communication etc., the shoe may be on the other foot.

Keep in mind that your neighbours are always your biggest enemies. In times of plenty - relationships are cordial or even excellent but in worse times - they turn on each other. Just look at Europe and how many wars have occurred between neighbours over the last 1000 years. USA and China are not neighbours but trade partners.
 
Keep in mind that your neighbours are always your biggest enemies. In times of plenty - relationships are cordial or even excellent but in worse times - they turn on each other. Just look at Europe and how many wars have occurred between neighbours over the last 1000 years. USA and China are not neighbours but trade partners.

China is not suicidal. America can draw on existing weapon inventories (thus money is not an issue). They have (already deployed) satellite intelligence systems. Provided they do not make arrogant assumptions (like Iraq), the West will side with them (they have a strong and sophisticated ally base). Russia detests America but China is also detested. Worse case = neutrality. India and Russia will take advantage of China’s distraction and attack on the borders. What allies can China call upon? N. Korea? They will have their hands full with S. Korea (a Western ally). Not even a remote chance of China being an aggressor (they’re not foolish). There would be ‘questions asked’ from allies if America decided to be an aggressor to solve their financial problems.

Look rather to China extracting their ‘pound of flesh’ from America through financial means. They have America by the ‘short & curlys’.
 
Big war is coming mark my words.

Nope, no big war between those two. How do you think China`s economy would fare without its biggest buyer?

I doooont think so.

You do know that the three largest naval fleets in the world... are all American? You are being unrealistic in your comparisons of navies, and understanding the economies of such a war.
 
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Remember Taiwan?

2003...
SMH, China yesterday warned it may go to war to gain control over Taiwan because the island's politicians were edging towards formal independence and the White House was taking an equivocal stand on the issue.

The blunt warning, the first use of such a threat in at least three years, comes as campaigning begins on the island of 22 million people for the presidential elections in March.

State television quoted an unnamed senior military analyst as saying China's People's Liberation Army was ready to crush separatists in Taiwan.

US intelligence reports say China has about 400 ballistic missiles positioned along the Taiwan Strait to threaten a barrage in the event of an overt move to independence. http://www.defencetalk.com/beijing-threatens-war-over-taiwan-2163/

2009...
Taiwan's defence ministry has said China's military strength is far more than it needs for self-defence and it is a threat to the Asia-Pacific region.

It warned unless 1,500 missiles aimed at Taiwan were removed, both nations would find it hard to trust each other. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8317254.stm

Remember the Chinese entering Japanese waters recently?

Remember the Chinese entering India a few weeks back?...

13.Beat The Grass To Startle The Snake

When you cannot detect the opponent's plans launch a direct, but brief, attack and observe your opponent reactions. His behavior will reveal his strategy. http://www.chinesewarstrategy.com/2008/11/iii-stratagems-for-attack.html

Thus...

One explanation as to why others, predominately in China, may be a little further along in embracing cyberwar is that the West tends to operate along Clausewitzian lines of military thinking. The East, on the other hand, tends to move along military lines of thought developed by Sun Tzu. Clausewitz describes warfare in a physical sense in which he presents an image of two wrestlers, each trying to impose his will upon the other. It is primarily focused on using physical strength in defeating armies.

Sun Tzu, on the other hand, describes warfare in a nonphysical sense in which a situation is allowed to mature, ultimately being won without fighting a physical war. Sun Tzu’s approach is primarily focused on attacking the enemy’s strategy. http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2009/09/4218087

It's just business...
Week 3: The Art of War
The role of culture in shaping Chinese business mentality. Interpreting Sun Tzu’s the Art of War and its modern day applications to business practices and strategic decisions.
Selected Readings:
Kaufman, S.E. (1996), Sun Tzu, The Art of War, the definitive interpretation, Tuttle Publishing
Krause, D.G. (1995), The Art of War for Executives, The Berkley Publishing Group
Krippendorff, K.(2006), The Art of the Advantage: 36 Strategies to Secure the Competitive Edge, Gazelles Publishing
http://www.thebeijingcenter.org/doc...iness_Strategies_in_the_Chinese_Tradition.pdf

Read all you can find on China. Read the The Art of War. Know thy enemy.
 
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