D3 Demon Hunters Conclave

[Archer]

Morning All

I have a question if anybody could help

One offhand that has 34.6% to inflict bleed for 389% weapon damage.
The other one 7% damage against elites.

Which one of the two is the strongest.

Elite damage

 

[Archer]

FYI - demon hunters have the easiest time gambling for 1H weapons because their weapon pool is so small (gets limited to bows). In fact, it is easier to gamble (in terms of shards spent) for an ancient nats slayer vs nats chest!

 

[HowTo]

FYI - demon hunters have the easiest time gambling for 1H weapons because their weapon pool is so small (gets limited to bows). In fact, it is easier to gamble (in terms of shards spent) for an ancient nats slayer vs nats chest!

I hear what you say.

RNG did not work for me. I tried lots of shards. nothing happened. All none-ancients.

Most of my gear came from Rift's and GR.

It took me lots of shards also to get my 1st WH-Belt.

S2 it dropped one and stats were not good at all. This season it also took me a while to get one. Then it dropped several.

 

[animal531]

Morning All

I have a question if anybody could help

One offhand that has 34.6% to inflict bleed for 389% weapon damage.
The other one 7% damage against elites.

Which one of the two is the strongest.

Neither. If those were the last stat on both I'd reroll them to all the usual Damage/CDR etc that we need.
BUT if you had to keep one then I'd also go with Elite damage.

 

[Yster21]

It all depends on the build you are currently running. If Marmite is running Nats, then the off-hand bow is nothing other than a "stat stick" due to the fact that RoV uses only the main-hand weapon to calculate its damage.

Estimates seem to indicate that RoV is around 95% of our damage.

The bleed damage would be useless in this regard, but the elite damage would be used by the main hand too, so elite damage is infinitely more useful than the bleed nonsense.

• On your main hand, you would have an Ancient with high damage roll, +% damage, dex, 10% CDR and a socket.
• On your offhand, you would have a utility bow with dex, a socket, 10% CDR and elite dmg. You can even roll the damage away if you want, but that is quite a mission.
• One of the bows must be a Natalya's Slayer for the RoV damage bonus, and the other will be either a Calamity or Balefire Caster (if you're playing fire)

 

[HowTo]

It all depends on the build you are currently running. If Marmite is running Nats, then the off-hand bow is nothing other than a "stat stick" due to the fact that RoV uses only the main-hand weapon to calculate its damage.

Estimates seem to indicate that RoV is around 95% of our damage.

The bleed damage would be useless in this regard, but the elite damage would be used by the main hand too, so elite damage is infinitely more useful than the bleed nonsense.

• On your main hand, you would have an Ancient with high damage roll, +% damage, dex, 10% CDR and a socket.
• On your offhand, you would have a utility bow with dex, a socket, 10% CDR and elite dmg. You can even roll the damage away if you want, but that is quite a mission.
• One of the bows must be a Natalya's Slayer for the RoV damage bonus, and the other will be either a Calamity or Balefire Caster (if you're playing fire)

The problem i have currently is to get Elite damage rolled. I'm already on a 1mil per roll. Hand full of stats but that one does not come up. S RNG is toying with me. Money is not the issue (1Bil strong).

 

[Yster21]

I rolled more than 200 times to get a measly +5% elite dmg on my calamity. Sitting at over 16mil per roll. That would destroy your 1bil gold in a short time.

 

[animal531]

I don't think Elite is worth it (also especially with our pings that make it hard to react to enemy abilities).

On e.g. 50, you can be owning small guys, blue elites and soft yellows, Even without the elite damage because they're soft you treat them exactly like white mobs and you just bounce them into the next pack and repeat for a few shots until they die. The bonus elite does very little to help.

Then you hit an average yellow pack, the bonus could help here. They hit you with something bad, but because you kill them 10% quicker it maybe takes you down from 2 deaths to 1.

BUT then you hit a super yellow pack. Trying to kill it means you are going to die 2-6 times. You can run, but then you have to try to either find an empty spot or make one, usually that means 1-3 deaths, unless if you get lucky on the map (or find either an opening or some soft spread out non-ranged mobs you can down quickly).

Trying to kill that big yellow means that your instance is basically blown, because you're going to up your res timer to close to 30s. Running is much better, but if you get unlucky on density you're also in a bit of trouble. Also sometimes running means that instead of 1 pack you're suddenly faced with 3.


So basically I'm saying its better to optimise for general damage/survival against small whites/elites, then farm for good instances while using running away/survival skills from the bigger ones; instead of trying to add a bit of damage vs the middle guys (that when you go up 2 GR's will become impossible to kill anyway).

 

[Yster21]

I haven't done all the number crunching, but agree that maybe I should rather have stuck with 10% RCR. I think elite damage makes its largest impact on the RGs. When you're busy hammering away at 200bn life, then 5% could make a perceivable difference. I've missed completing a GR in the 15 minutes by 0.683sec. If my bow had rolled 8% Elite damage, I would have made it.

Every little bit helps.

Slightly off-topic: gems of choice for N6 fire build

I've done some simulations on the D3planner site, and it seems what would work best for me with my current gear is the combination of BotT+Zei's+Iceblink. Taeguk performs worse than Iceblink on lower levels of CHC, and knowing that we sack CHC for CDR on our rings, this makes sense. Also, I was using a lvl50 Gogok extensively, but it seems using Zei's over Gogok could work better if you struggle with the latency of timing EF.

Using paragons to have IAS of +4.4% and using Gogok, makes me run out of Hatred very quickly. To compensate, I need to play with the Night Stalker passive so I could keep my Hatred topped up, which means dropping either Ambush or Steady Aim. That's a significant damage per hit loss, though the DPS is only a little less.

If I don't use Gogok, I merely need to have +2.2% IAS, don't run out of Hatred as quickly, and do a lot more instant damage, though the DPS stays about the same. I do need to mention my Companion - Wolf up-time drops from 79% to 67%. There is also a survivability impact on SS.

I find that I very rarely get to stand still and just shoot, and need to use the available time for RoV very well. This makes the case for Zei's over Gogok, especially if you struggle to keep EF spam perfect.

Comparing the Gogok vs. Zei's use (Gogok's values first, followed by Zei's, and the value in brackets is if Ambush is applied when the mob is over 75% life):

• RoV DPS: 3.47bn vs 3.50bn (4.90bn)
• RoV Damage: 4.04bn vs 5.44bn (7.61bn)
• Crashing Beast Damage: 3.32bn vs 4.47bn (6.26bn)

As can be seen, the DPSes are comparable, but the damage per hit difference is immense. I think hitting for harder but more rarely would work better for me. There is also not the chance that any stacks of anything dropping off, which need to be reapplied. But, I need to test and see. There is the issue that it might feel "clunky".

 

[animal531]

I agree on Taeguk, it takes too long to both spin up and keep up. When you die its all instantly gone and it takes you ages to get back.

I'm pretty decent at getting Evasives in, so if I use Gogok + Ambush I probably have to regen hatred only 1-2 times per GR, but even that can be annoying if it happens at the wrong time, so I usually use Archery instead (with which I run at a positive hatred balance).

Zei is a mixed bag because its very hard to keep range from enemies, so when you need the damage most you effectively lose it. I have difficulty staying at max range (except with the easiest of mobs, where the damage matters less anyway).

For me at the moment I found that using Gogok my EF cycles dropped by at least 1 per Rain, which adds a bit of damage along with as you said shorter cycles on Wolf etc. BUT also importantly the shorter Rains help to bump enemies away that get close and to push them back faster into other groups, so I can clear faster (I also think you want to hit Rain while Rain is still up for the bonus damage?). But having said that, they're all pretty close, you change 1 stat on an item and suddenly another gem/passive could be better.

I guess if we're farming for that 1 zombie instance then we should load up on all the things like Taeguk+Zei...but that's a 1 in a 1000 instance.

 

[AfricanTech]

I've been using GeT for the DoT plus the flat 10% irrespective of distance 'cos I find it hard to stay far from mobs (although I have to learn how to do that since at higher GR's you simply squish as DH)

I got a decentish Haunt of Vaxo so I'm going to switch back to Zei's to help proc the clones - hopefully, the clones will act as a further distraction and allow me to avoid being targeted just a little bit more

I need to decide between using a Balefire and a Calamity in my offhand

 

[Yster21]

I agree on Taeguk, it takes too long to both spin up and keep up. When you die its all instantly gone and it takes you ages to get back.

I'm pretty decent at getting Evasives in, so if I use Gogok + Ambush I probably have to regen hatred only 1-2 times per GR, but even that can be annoying if it happens at the wrong time, so I usually use Archery instead (with which I run at a positive hatred balance).

Zei is a mixed bag because its very hard to keep range from enemies, so when you need the damage most you effectively lose it. I have difficulty staying at max range (except with the easiest of mobs, where the damage matters less anyway).

For me at the moment I found that using Gogok my EF cycles dropped by at least 1 per Rain, which adds a bit of damage along with as you said shorter cycles on Wolf etc. BUT also importantly the shorter Rains help to bump enemies away that get close and to push them back faster into other groups, so I can clear faster (I also think you want to hit Rain while Rain is still up for the bonus damage?). But having said that, they're all pretty close, you change 1 stat on an item and suddenly another gem/passive could be better.

I guess if we're farming for that 1 zombie instance then we should load up on all the things like Taeguk+Zei...but that's a 1 in a 1000 instance.

I took your advice and dropped Ambush for Archery, and away goes all my Hatred regen issues.

I replaced my Gogok with a Zei's. I find it quite easy to stay around 50y away from the majority of mobs, and Stampede helps to keep it that way. I've seen crits of well over 10bn this way. I think I saw one of 17bn, but can't be sure now. Most of the time mobs are being pushed out of the screen.

With my testing, I have found the slower playstyle to suit me much better. I easily cleared all my 48 and 49 stones, and made them into 50's and 51's. Even one 49 that had mostly ranged mobs, spitting gogga thingies, winged assassins and anarchs + exarchs, I managed to clear with 8 seconds left. I was already on 30sec on my death timer and had to wait that out twice (that's two minutes of being dead). This was in the A3 keep depths tileset: the worst for a DH.

 

[Yster21]

I've been using GeT for the DoT plus the flat 10% irrespective of distance 'cos I find it hard to stay far from mobs (although I have to learn how to do that since at higher GR's you simply squish as DH)

I got a decentish Haunt of Vaxo so I'm going to switch back to Zei's to help proc the clones - hopefully, the clones will act as a further distraction and allow me to avoid being targeted just a little bit more

I need to decide between using a Balefire and a Calamity in my offhand

Are you playing UE or N6 at the moment?

How does Zei's help you proc the clones? I'm sorry, I don't know how Haunt of Vaxo works

I just use Calamity because it's a guaranteed 20% damage increase, whereas Balefire you have to be lucky it rolls with +20% fire damage. I just can't find a post that shows what MfD and Elemental Damage are grouped with. You naturally don't get the full value you see there, and each is added into its own category somewhere additively.

 

[Yster21]

Useful to know:

 

[animal531]

I took your advice and dropped Ambush for Archery, and away goes all my Hatred regen issues.

I replaced my Gogok with a Zei's. I find it quite easy to stay around 50y away from the majority of mobs, and Stampede helps to keep it that way. I've seen crits of well over 10bn this way. I think I saw one of 17bn, but can't be sure now. Most of the time mobs are being pushed out of the screen.

With my testing, I have found the slower playstyle to suit me much better. I easily cleared all my 48 and 49 stones, and made them into 50's and 51's. Even one 49 that had mostly ranged mobs, spitting gogga thingies, winged assassins and anarchs + exarchs, I managed to clear with 8 seconds left. I was already on 30sec on my death timer and had to wait that out twice (that's two minutes of being dead). This was in the A3 keep depths tileset: the worst for a DH.

Nice! I'm still at the point where if I get a crap 47 I can't do much about it and I'm probably not going to make the timer (but I've been unlucky a lot on the mobs I get in the last 2 weeks).
I'll try running with Zei again the weekend, its been a while since I last tried it. I'm only at 20% fire, so I might benefit from running Balefire > Calamity as well.

The graph is pretty handy, I usually just remember the bottom of the screen is about 40 and the top 60 away, left and right is about 50. Top left and right corners are by far the best.

 

[Yster21]

Ok, so it seems I am farming posts today!

Did some checking, comparing Balefire Caster with Calamity.

Elemental Damage sits on its own category as an independent multiplier. MfD is added with bonus skill damage, Strongarm Bracers, Wolf Companion and Steady Aim.

For my build, this makes MfD add ~8.6% damage if Wolf is up.

Balefire Caster at 20% would give me +14.3% more damage, knowing I have 20% elemental damage on both bracers and neck, and 16.7% if I only had 20% on bracers.

This is confirmed on D3planner.

I didn't see that one coming.

 

[AfricanTech]

Are you playing UE or N6 at the moment?

How does Zei's help you proc the clones? I'm sorry, I don't know how Haunt of Vaxo works

I just use Calamity because it's a guaranteed 20% damage increase, whereas Balefire you have to be lucky it rolls with +20% fire damage. I just can't find a post that shows what MfD and Elemental Damage are grouped with. You naturally don't get the full value you see there, and each is added into its own category somewhere additively.

N6, but I've hit the wall at around 47 - (I know my highest is 44 on the table (I think) but that's because I havent had a 45/46 key to try yet) - last night I accidently ran a 47 with the Calamity in my main hand and wondered wtf I wasn't killing mobs until I noticed after the rift - eish - then I ran a 48 but about 3 minutes too slow...

Zei's procs the Vaxo because of the 20% stun - clones proc when you stun.

Wrt to Calamity vs Balefire, yeah, came to same conclusion

How do manage to stay so far away?

Dang...

 

[AfricanTech]

Ok, so it seems I am farming posts today!

Did some checking, comparing Balefire Caster with Calamity.

Elemental Damage sits on its own category as an independent multiplier. MfD is added with bonus skill damage, Strongarm Bracers, Wolf Companion and Steady Aim.

For my build, this makes MfD add ~8.6% damage if Wolf is up.

Balefire Caster at 20% would give me +14.3% more damage, knowing I have 20% elemental damage on both bracers and neck, and 16.7% if I only had 20% on bracers.

This is confirmed on D3planner.

I didn't see that one coming.

Interesting, very interesting - I only have the 20% on my bracers, and, my BfC only has 16% fire (I think)

Very interesting

One more thing with the Calamity, it helps you see where the damn critters are in those messy mobs...

Hmm, I've seen the Vaxo clones proc MfD:VoD so maybe if I drop the Calamity for a BfC (have to roll RCR onto it first - I see some people saying you can roll the damage off 'cos it's not used by RoV at all)

 

[Yster21]

How do manage to stay so far away?

RoV - Stampede, especially down long hallways.

(have to roll RCR onto it first - I see some people saying you can roll the damage off 'cos it's not used by RoV at all)

Korrek. But you're going to spend a LOT of gold trying to roll damage off. 90% of the rolls will yield only damage. I wouldn't recommend it unless if you have thousands of arcane dust and billions of gold.

 

[HowTo]

Playing N6

How to keep up Hatred.

L) Rain of Vengence.
R) Evasive
1) Straff
2) Wolf
3) Preparation
4) Smoke Screen
Need to know mouse and Keyboard seq.

I normally hold key 1 (Always in use) in for straff and klick right hand mouse for evasive. This keeps hatred up.
Then when is see a large mob i klick lh mouse for rain of Veng. At times i don't see Rain of Veng active on screen even if i pressed the key. This is the time i lose hatred. Now i need to concentrate of clicking lh mouse key to actively activate key.

When i look again no more hatred.

I still use only UE for GR only. N6 i progressed to GR37