D3 Demon Hunters Conclave

Dodge is worthless against elite affixes, none of them can be dodged
AR (ie diamonds) is the real way to gain proper toughness as a dex char. Where do you guys get the idea that dodge is a good toughness stat?
 
Archer said:
Dodge is worthless against elite affixes, none of them can be dodged
AR (ie diamonds) is the real way to gain proper toughness as a dex char. Where do you guys get the idea that dodge is a good toughness stat?
Click to expand...

However, dex is a main stat for DH - you can't sub diamonds for emeralds for DH
 
Archer said:
Dodge is worthless against elite affixes, none of them can be dodged
AR (ie diamonds) is the real way to gain proper toughness as a dex char. Where do you guys get the idea that dodge is a good toughness stat?
Click to expand...

Well this is what I always thought (hence the AR gems). And thanks for answering the question regarding the Elite affixes! You've just saved me loads of cash!
 
AfricanTech said:
Your DH or Crusader?

If your Crusader is tough enough, consider replacing that socket in your helm with a ChC roll

Edit: You also need a serious upgrade on your ChD bonus - try to keep the ratio of 1 ChC to 10 ChD - play around with the paragon points allocations.
Click to expand...

I'm only talking DH in this thread unless I specifically reference my crusader
 
AfricanTech said:
However, dex is a main stat for DH - you can't sub diamonds for emeralds for DH
Click to expand...

Toughness = diamond
Damage = emerald

But dont fool yourself into thinking that more dex = more dodge = more safety from elite affixes. We are not nearly as lucky as str/int chars that get real toughness from their primary stat
 
Archer said:
Toughness = diamond
Damage = emerald

But dont fool yourself into thinking that more dex = more dodge = more safety from elite affixes. We are not nearly as lucky as str/int chars that get real toughness from their primary stat
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're saying, I whacked 3 royal emeralds into my chest armour yesterday and my toughness is now significantly better than before
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
I'm not sure what you're saying, I whacked 3 royal emeralds into my chest armour yesterday and my toughness is now significantly better than before
Click to expand...

Toughness is made up of 4 main parts (there are more but lets keep it simple)
Armour - reduces incoming damage
Resistance - reduces incoming damage
Dodge - chance to avoid damage
Block - chance to block a set amount of damage

The game will first check if a dodge occured (100% damage avoidance)
Then it reduces the damage by applying armour and resist
Finally it checks if you blocked, and reduces the damage by the amount on your shield
In keeping with the above, toughness is calculated accordingly, so yes - more dex = more dodge = more toughness

The issue with dodge is that it only works on "normal" attacks (eg getting hit in the face with an axe) and does not apply to stuff like arcane or poison on the ground. Now ask yourself, what are you more likely to die from? A physical attack, or frozen/molten/poison/etc? Hence the toughness gained from dodge is a false indicator as it does not apply to the really dangerous stuff. So if you find you need more toughness, most of the time more dex/dodge will not help as much as what the toughness stat says it will
 
If by "elite affixes" you mean fire chains, arcane sprinklers, frozen orbs, etc, then as far as I know yes, you can dodge them.

Dodge is considered a toughness stat, as is AC and AR. AC and AR reduce the damage of those affixes, and as such, Dodge should not be excluded from the list. If it was, then DHs and Monks would be at one serious disadvantage!

I haven't recently checked it, but in the past I know for a fact that I have seen *Dodge* pop up when one of those should have hit me. I know I have dodged those explosions of dying mobs multiple times if I couldn't resist the temptation to grab the loot.

Dodge, however, is the least reliable toughness stat, as it's an all or nothing approach. I'd still rather stack AR and AC if I were you, for a flat and predictable damage reduction, and not spiky heart-attack inducing nonsense.

On a side note, I have recently changed from my boring old Barb to the exciting DH! I am having so much more fun running for my life whilst dishing out a gazillion dps to whatever is chasing me. I swear, if a mob farts next to me, I die horribly and instantly. It's just much more fun than walking into the middle of the masses of mobs and all their crap on the floor, not caring, and tickling them to death with Whirlwind. I did the switch when my Barb looted a 2700+ dps 1-h set crossbow. It took me 2 months to get my barb to do "decent" (~1mil) dps, but it took me three days to have my DH at 1.1mil, with several items still requiring upgrades.

RNG or balance problem with the classes? I dunno, but what I do know is that DPS is king and tanking is boring imo.
 
Archer said:
Toughness is made up of 4 main parts (there are more but lets keep it simple)
Armour - reduces incoming damage
Resistance - reduces incoming damage
Dodge - chance to avoid damage
Block - chance to block a set amount of damage

The game will first check if a dodge occured (100% damage avoidance)
Then it reduces the damage by applying armour and resist
Finally it checks if you blocked, and reduces the damage by the amount on your shield
In keeping with the above, toughness is calculated accordingly, so yes - more dex = more dodge = more toughness

The issue with dodge is that it only works on "normal" attacks (eg getting hit in the face with an axe) and does not apply to stuff like arcane or poison on the ground. Now ask yourself, what are you more likely to die from? A physical attack, or frozen/molten/poison/etc? Hence the toughness gained from dodge is a false indicator as it does not apply to the really dangerous stuff
Click to expand...

100% correct.

However, DH is not a melee character - hence, you should not be standing in pools of poison, desecrator rings, etc - you should be gettin' the hell out of there :D

That is what vault is for

As an aside, once you have Marauders, your pets become really useful - spider slows enemies bring Cull the Weak fully into the equation, bat keeps your hatred up, boar ups your toughness, wolf your damage - best part is, when you hit those reflect mobs, you can stop shooting and let the pets maul them to death :D
 
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AfricanTech said:
100% correct.

However, DH is not a melee character - hence, you should not be standing in pools of poison, desecrator rings, etc - you should be gettin' the hell out of there :D

That is what vault is for

As an aside, once you have Marauders, your pets become really useful - spider slows enemies bring Cull the Weak fully into the equation, bat keeps your hatred up, boar ups your toughness, wolf your damage - best part is, when you hit those reflect mobs, you can stop shooting and let the pets maul them to death :D
Click to expand...

Interesting! So even though they're doing damage for you, the fact that they're NOT you means you don't get nailed by those reflecting b@stards!!
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
I'm only talking DH in this thread unless I specifically reference my crusader
Click to expand...

Swap your bows around - put the higher DPS one in your main hand

Take that red gem out of your RoRG and put in a Emerald/Diamond/Amethyst

If that socket on your Balefire Caster or the Danetta's are natural, the reroll the damage for higher rolls.

and of course roll the socket on the helm for something more useful

Edit: PS - when you reroll the socket the gem will be removed automatically so don't spend gold unsocketing it
 
AfricanTech said:
Swap your bows around - put the higher DPS one in your main hand

Take that red gem out of your RoRG and put in a Emerald/Diamond/Amethyst

If that socket on your Balefire Caster or the Danetta's are natural, the reroll the damage for higher rolls.

and of course roll the socket on the helm for something more useful

Edit: PS - when you reroll the socket the gem will be removed automatically so don't spend gold unsocketing it
Click to expand...

Also pick an element to do ur main dmg with.
YOu have to many hatred spenders and no generator.
 
Agent_Smith said:
Interesting! So even though they're doing damage for you, the fact that they're NOT you means you don't get nailed by those reflecting b@stards!!
Click to expand...

Yup - same with the KeyWarden in the Oasis - that bstd reflects missiles back at you - encountered him on T3 mats run - let the pets maul him to death while I cleaned up the critters around 'im - worked a treat
 
Yster21 said:
If by "elite affixes" you mean fire chains, arcane sprinklers, frozen orbs, etc, then as far as I know yes, you can dodge them.
Click to expand...

You cant dodge arcane from what I've read (does seem to be some debate but I'm siding with it doesnt work). You can't dodge any ground effects. You can dodge firechains and frozen explosions (not too sure about frozen orb).

It makes dodge pretty worthless as a stat to focus on considering the diminishing returns you get.
 
AfricanTech said:
Swap your bows around - put the higher DPS one in your main hand

Take that red gem out of your RoRG and put in a Emerald/Diamond/Amethyst

If that socket on your Balefire Caster or the Danetta's are natural, the reroll the damage for higher rolls.

and of course roll the socket on the helm for something more useful

Edit: PS - when you reroll the socket the gem will be removed automatically so don't spend gold unsocketing it
Click to expand...

thanks for the tips :)

what influence does swapping weapon hands have as it doesn't reflect in stats?
 
Archer said:
Toughness is made up of 4 main parts (there are more but lets keep it simple)
Armour - reduces incoming damage
Resistance - reduces incoming damage
Dodge - chance to avoid damage
Block - chance to block a set amount of damage
Click to expand...

I think you mean Effective Health Points and not Toughness here. The Toughness value on your character sheet is not affected by Block, though Block definitely affects your EHP (logically). I feel it should have been calculated into your Toughness, though, as that value is not informative enough.
 
Zankanotachi said:
Also pick an element to do ur main dmg with.
YOu have to many hatred spenders and no generator.
Click to expand...

okay, thanks, will look into that

as mentioned before I really don't pay as much attention to my builds as I should, but then you guys are doing it for me :p :D

I still feel like such a n00b :o
 
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Ol' Mean Bastid said:
thanks for the tips :)

what influence does swapping weapon hands have as it doesn't reflect in stats?
Click to expand...

There are skills that use the Main Hand Weapon damage to calculate their damage procs

Ones I have found are:

Rain of Vengance: Uses Main hand weapon for calculating damage
Companions/All: Scales with main hand damage.
Sentries/no rune: Scales with main hand damage.
Caltrops/Jagged Spikes: Main Hand scaling.
Smoke screen/Choking gas: Main Hand scaling.
Vault/All runes: Main Hand scaling.
 
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