Dear reader, we're closing comments (IOL)

Well, by extension of this logic, there is, therefore, no acceptable forum for public debate. All public comment must be stifled due to the possibility that it may be racist or hateful.
I disagree. By responding in a respectful manner we can agree to disagree with each other without resorting to insults and name-calling.

The fact is that there does not always have to be a winner in every debate or argument. I could walk away with a bloodied nose and a dented ego but it's not the end of the world. And THAT is the problem... recognising that my opinion is either not always correct or the only valid one and knowing when to acknowledge it.


Not in reply to your post but regarding censorship I believe that some forms of it are necessary. It's all fine to join the "no censorship" brigade but do folks really understand what that means? Will that brigade agree to hard core (legal) porn being broadcast on free to air TV at any time of the day?
 
Damn IOL also switch off comments

No place to troll anymore. Seriously I think they gonna see major readership drop and advertisers losing out. Not that I give a toss. I get why they did it to some extent. but unfortunately public 'debate' are somewhat 'silenced' by this
 
I have not really been on news24 since they dropped it. Didn't even know IOL had them if they had them I guess they were so few I had never noticed, they were the best part of going to news24.
 
International news websites have been closing comment sections over the past 2 years. Their disappearance is a general trend. ANC who?
 
Racism and trolling is a smokescreen.

The cANCer simply can't handle the fact that so many people point out the BS when their crony media regurgitates their drivel, and while there are some truly racist comments, anybody who disagrees with the official line is a "racist" to them.

There is obviously widespread co-ordinated pressure to shut up the dissenters and they're pooping their pants because there is a growing groundswell of dissatisfaction (from both black and white) that has a very public forum.

This is a huge opportunity for anyone to setup an objective alternative online SA news aggregation service with public participation on servers far away from their grubby paws.

But who defines what is racist?

Somebody will typically state their opinion that something or other went wrong because of BEE. Somebody else will call them racist. Maybe the original author had a point, maybe not. Does that make him/her a "racist troll"? Or is it more valuable to have a debate about it? Or should we all shut up?

The problem is that so many articles are about government failure, and the logical responses are to complain about the ANC. Occasionally, somebody really does post something blatantly racist, but it is not as often as you would think and they tend to get removed or flamed pretty fast. And these days it is equally likely to be an EFF troll being just as outrageous as it is some right wing conservative.

It seems just whining about government incompetence, or registering your disagreement with some or other government policy seems to get you branded as a "racist". So while I would agree that there is a preponderance of overly miserable people who complain about everything without offering much constructive input, I wouldn't brand them as racist trolls.

100% agreed.

I never commented on N24 or IOL because I can't be bothered with a facebook account but it was a fantastic gauge of semi to literate public sentiment.

Definitely going down the censorship route in my opinion.
 
Mybroadband will also close it's comments soon........ oh, wait :erm:

I liked the comment section of IOL, was great for some laughs and correcting the journalists spelling and grammar. Any other good news sites? I want one that gives you the headlines of all the others, like IOL use to do good. They're lacking there the last couple of months....err, years.
 
I've found News24 to be a much more tolerable place since they cut the ability for the handful of idiots to spew their bile across their pages.

And it is a handful of idiots. I don't if all of them are trolls or all are genuine hate-filled idiots, and I don't really care either way, but in my real world experience with well over 300000 students at my university over the last 20 years, I've run across maybe 20 people who act like those commenters on News24. The rest act civilized.

And for those calling it censorship, have you been to News24 lately and read the As It Happened articles and the commentary feedback columns. All fair and well-express thoughts are there, just not the racist crud that clogged up the discussions before.
 
Mybroadband will also close it's comments soon........ oh, wait :erm:

I liked the comment section of IOL, was great for some laughs and correcting the journalists spelling and grammar. Any other good news sites? I want one that gives you the headlines of all the others, like IOL use to do good. They're lacking there the last couple of months....err, years.

MyBB has increased it's number of comment sections, what mavericks.
 
Ag what a crock of shyte...

It's all about accountability. Nothing to do with moderation and the likes. Take DJ...'s issue of a year or so ago. Endless hoops had to be jumped through to get the identity of the person aka DJ... Pressure was applied and in the end DJ... apologised and the matter was laid to rest.

The issue here is/would be anonymity. Site can continue going as it is if full details of all registered users are recorded somehow and all posters are responsible for their posts. Instead of having to go through endless red-tape to get the info from MyBB and then the ISPs and what not else to determine who the person was. If pressure is put on MyBB it's a simple matter of having a system where people disclose their full real identity to be a member and all will continue as normal.

I have no issue with MyBB owners having me personal details as I have nothing to hide and stand by what I say. The people who have an issue are the people normally spewing hate speech and the likes with the knowledge of not being fingered in any way. Paul had an agenda, nothing more nothing less.


As far as I'm aware, I personally have never once issued a racist statement, or have ever gotten involved in a discussion that could or should lead into personal insult, but I do believe that it would be dangerous for me to discuss what I do discuss on an non-anonymous platform. If there were no anonymous platforms, I could not personally contribute what I believe to be contributing (regardless of your personal ideas about the value of those contributions to your life or to planet earth in general), and would not expend the time and effort to do so. In theory (and I'm sure research will unveil- in practice), this could lead to people of worth failing to contribute value to society.

Oh please, ffs, does anybody see any value that these cowardly racist trolls add to any debate ever?
Nobody who is abusive or racist deserves the right to have their abusive and racist views aired to the public.
The whole concept of freedom of speech should be reserved for those who are willing to come forward in public and face the consequences of saying what they want to say, and not those who hide in anonymity.

Don't stop there. You'll eventually just end up playing wack-a-mole - after all, you can close down the forums and still, someone could approach you at the checkout counter and call you something mean. We need to nip the problem in the bud. We need to figure out a way we can determine accurately the number of TROLL genes their DNA contains, and throw them off a cliff at birth. [ /s - except not really.]

Until the [REDACTED] decides any opposing views are racist.....

There we go...once we've decided we are being exclusionary, then we deal with the problem of who has the power to exclude.

Racism and trolling is a smokescreen.

The {PARTY} simply can't handle the fact that so many people point out the BS when their crony media regurgitates their drivel, and while there are some truly racist comments, anybody who disagrees with the official line is a "racist" to them.

There is obviously widespread co-ordinated pressure to shut up the dissenters and they're pooping their pants because there is a growing groundswell of dissatisfaction (from both black and white) that has a very public forum.

Thanks garp. Your eyes are open.
 
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This is a huge opportunity for anyone to setup an objective alternative online SA news aggregation service with public participation on servers far away from their grubby paws.

[Re. alt news source] Reddit already exists ;)

Reddit is suffering from the same malaise. It's a global clampdown.

Good move - if you feel like saying something disgusting about other races, go say it in their faces at a township or in Orania... Keyboard ninjas, racists and armchair critics will be up in arms... but who gives a **** really?

Not everyone can be paid to criticize, and not eveyone can actually bear arms, but many of these folk might have perfectly good reasoning, and be able to offer insight to their fellow man. If society expects these people to present their papers before raising their hands to speak, then society is lost.


The {REDACTED} has mounted a strong campaign against true freedom of speech. As long as the internet exists the {REDACTED} cannot control the news and the facts. They can take down the established press, they can subtly and slowly change the laws, they can ignore court rulings, but they can not stop the truth from being spoken on the internet. Only by blocking internet access to certain sites, such as China has done, can they achieve this.

These words, no matter what political entity is inserted into the statement, will always be valid, and the evil imperative to control thought will always remain. But hey, in the words of zululami: "who gives a *** really?"

However, online comments do not constitute a reporting of facts, nor are they 'freedom of speech'. A great deal of it is the spewing of hatred with no original ideas or thought involved.

Earth is a realm of dirt. We NEED the muck. It feeds the FRUIT.


People voicing their frustrations is not the same as people spewing hatred. If these people are unable to voice their frustrations in a manner which does not violate the dignity and respect of other race groups then they do not deserve to be heard.

You CANNOT have good without evil, unless there is NO FREEDOM, but the human race will die trying... :(



My point is if someone on here as an example makes derogatory comments on lets say Malema, and Malema then wants to take action. It's a crap load of shyte that needs to be gone through to get the identity of the person involved. Said person would probably not have posted such comments knowing that their identity is not protected.

As it should be. The Avengers - they "don't know the difference between saving the world, and destroying it."


If it's one thing that history has taught us it's that censorship works.

BINGOl


It's not censorship though is it?
Asking for people to post without anonymity is not censorship. It just means that you can defend your stance or view point publicly and even in a court if need be.

It's about self-censorship. Read up on "Chilling Effects". See my post here (), where even under the guise of pseudo-anonymity (because that's all it is), no-one else has been willing to utter a peep. Ironic, since that effect is exactly what the article was about.


Yes, valid criticism is now the victim of this due to News24 and IOL not being prepared to make sure the leg work is done in making sure the identities of these posters are true and available or that the posts are actually moderated as pointed out by MickeyD. They should just do the ground work on their end to comply with this and open the comments sections. That way criticism valid will not be affected by comments and opinions.

Are you an employee in the "Know Your Customer" campaign PR department? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer


I think I have a solution to this problem/issue.
Yes there are people who are intolerant and hate speech should never be tolerated. I am however against censorship.
Messages on apps like snapchat disappear after a few seconds.
Why cant news sites automatically delete comments after 24 hours?
You have 24 hours to debate and voice your opinion. It would be too much effort to get a court order if comments are deleted after 24 hours.
This system makes sense to me on a current affairs site, as content is changing daily.

Are you an employee of the "Memory Hole" department of the Ministry of Truth?


Good idea, but I would go further. I would have a ranking system on the comments, and each registered user gets to upvote one comment. Then you take the 20 or so highest rated comments and publish them to the article as: "What our readers said:". If the comment contains hate speech, you put a warning label on it so people can be aware of what they are reading then you publish it.

Problem-reaction-solution. Creatures of the Wheel indeed.


Not providing a platform for comment is not censorship though. Nobody with a website is obliged to offer a platform for comments

If it is technically possible for people to remotely communicate over some public medium, and only legislation and willpower holds it back from being achieved, there is some kind of censorship going on, enforced, or voluntary - same effect either way - a non-communicative society.

From the article no-one will comment on: (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/11/if-youre-not-paranoid-youre-crazy/407833/)

There in the pool, immersed in clouds of steam that fostered a sense of mystic intimacy, I wondered whether a generation that found the concept of privacy archaic might be undergoing a great mutation, surrendering the interior psychic realms whose sanctity can no longer be assured. Masking one’s insides behind one’s outsides—once the essential task of human social life—was becoming a strenuous, suspect undertaking; why not, like my teenage acquaintance, just quit the fight? Surveillance and data mining presuppose that there exists in us a hidden self that can be reached through probing and analyses that are best practiced on the unaware, but what if we wore our whole beings on our sleeves? Perhaps the rush toward self-disclosure precipitated by social media was a preemptive defense against intruders: What’s freely given can’t be stolen. Interiority on Planet X‑Ray is a burden that’s best shrugged off, not borne. My teenage friend was onto something. Become a bright, flat surface. Cast no shadow.



More than enough reason then to not give in and fight this bull****.
I can take a lot of crap in this country but the day freedom of speech is eroded in such a sinister way is the day I finally get off my ass and take to the streets.

Imagine your real name was attached to that statement... :/

From the article no-one will comment on: (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/11/if-youre-not-paranoid-youre-crazy/407833/)

The gun show was not about weaponry, primarily, but about autonomy—construed in this case as the right to stand one’s ground against an arrogant, intrusive new order whose instruments of suppression and control I’d seen for myself the night before. There seemed to be no rational response to the feelings of powerlessness stirred by the cybernetic panopticon; the choice was either to ignore it or go crazy, at least to some degree. With its coolly planar architecture, the data center projected a stern indifference to the qualms that its presence inevitably raised. It practically dared one to take up arms against it, a Goliath that roused the instinct to grab a slingshot. The assault rifles and grenade launchers (I handled one, I hope for the last time) for sale were props in a drama of imagined resistance in which individuals would rise up to defend themselves. The irony was that preparing for such a fight in the only way these people knew how—by plotting their countermoves and hoarding ammo—played into the very security concerns that the overlords use to justify their snooping. The would-be combatants in this epic conflict were more closely linked, perhaps, than they appreciated.
 
Earth is a realm of dirt. We NEED the muck. It feeds the FRUIT.
Hah, nice turn of phrase.

From the article no-one will comment on: (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/11/if-youre-not-paranoid-youre-crazy/407833/)

There in the pool, immersed in clouds of steam that fostered a sense of mystic intimacy, I wondered whether a generation that found the concept of privacy archaic might be undergoing a great mutation, surrendering the interior psychic realms whose sanctity can no longer be assured. Masking one’s insides behind one’s outsides—once the essential task of human social life—was becoming a strenuous, suspect undertaking; why not, like my teenage acquaintance, just quit the fight? Surveillance and data mining presuppose that there exists in us a hidden self that can be reached through probing and analyses that are best practiced on the unaware, but what if we wore our whole beings on our sleeves? Perhaps the rush toward self-disclosure precipitated by social media was a preemptive defense against intruders: What’s freely given can’t be stolen. Interiority on Planet X‑Ray is a burden that’s best shrugged off, not borne. My teenage friend was onto something. Become a bright, flat surface. Cast no shadow.


From the article no-one will comment on: (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/11/if-youre-not-paranoid-youre-crazy/407833/)

The gun show was not about weaponry, primarily, but about autonomy—construed in this case as the right to stand one’s ground against an arrogant, intrusive new order whose instruments of suppression and control I’d seen for myself the night before. There seemed to be no rational response to the feelings of powerlessness stirred by the cybernetic panopticon; the choice was either to ignore it or go crazy, at least to some degree. With its coolly planar architecture, the data center projected a stern indifference to the qualms that its presence inevitably raised. It practically dared one to take up arms against it, a Goliath that roused the instinct to grab a slingshot. The assault rifles and grenade launchers (I handled one, I hope for the last time) for sale were props in a drama of imagined resistance in which individuals would rise up to defend themselves. The irony was that preparing for such a fight in the only way these people knew how—by plotting their countermoves and hoarding ammo—played into the very security concerns that the overlords use to justify their snooping. The would-be combatants in this epic conflict were more closely linked, perhaps, than they appreciated.
Lol, are you really surprised that no one wants to comment about an article which neatly describes collective anxiety and thus renders it naked?
 
Lol, are you really surprised that no one wants to comment about an article which neatly describes collective anxiety and thus renders it naked?

Not surprised as such - it simply illustrated the point. ...And to be fair, that particular article I posted as an addendum, long after the original post (about a separate topic) faded from the front page.
If no-one is willing to discuss such things behind a pseudonym, I can't see how forcing a real-name policy will improve the situation. Unless of course, we've all gotten over those particular collective anxieties and silently agreed to small-talk our days away...

International news websites have been closing comment sections over the past 2 years. Their disappearance is a general trend. ANC who?

Hehe.

220px-Ankh_%28SVG%29_01.svg.png


500
 
....

My theory (shared by some here, it seems): These creeping maneuvers to close off anonymous communication (RICA was a related early local step, one could argue) are simply to make sure that in the New Age you and I are incapable of this:

Inception_ver3.jpg
 
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Not surprised as such - it simply illustrated the point. ...And to be fair, that particular article I posted as an addendum, long after the original post (about a separate topic) faded from the front page.
If no-one is willing to discuss such things behind a pseudonym, I can't see how forcing a real-name policy will improve the situation. Unless of course, we've all gotten over those particular collective anxieties and silently agreed to small-talk our days away...
Anxiety is a liar. Anxiety is the fear of uncertainty. Anxiety is the origin of cognitive bias.

Just because someone is not actively feeling anxious does not mean that their anxieties aren't ruling their behaviour. Especially since usually an admission of anxiousness is a certain sign of weakness if done publicly. Who wants to let others know what their worst fears are?

I'm just saying, most people will do almost anything to avoid this unpleasant truth.
 
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