Debt Question

[Jester01]

Hi Guys,

I have a question, and I am hoping the knowledgeable folk her on MyBB will be able to assist.

I am getting married in a couple weeks, but I have some adverse debt on my hands, if I get married COP will this affect my soon to be wife's credit record?

Kind Regards,
Jester.

 

[The_Ogre]

No, not at all

 

[Jester01]

Ok perfect, so even in COP none of my issues with debt will affect her?

 

[_Jakes_]

Why are you gettting married COP, read up on ANC.
Once you get married all debts are shared equally, so yes your debt becomes hers as well.


ANC with accrual
Each partner states the value of their respective assets at the beginning of marriage. Thereafter any assets are shared 50/50. One can state that specific assets be excluded from the accrual, such an inheritances, donations etc.
Most marriages (9 out of 10) are ANC with accrual … this is really the way to go!
Advantages:
you both share in the wealth accumulated during marriage
if each of you owned property before the marriage, it remains in your respective names
you each conduct your own independent financial affairs
if one of you goes into debt, it cannot be claimed from the estate of the other
in the case of divorce, any assets made whilst married are shared – it doesn’t matter who acquired them; each partner’s current net asset value is calculated by subtracting all liabilities from assets
the ANC can be tailored to suit your needs
it protects the partner who remains at home to care for the family

Community of property
If you choose not to draw up an antenuptial agreement in South Africa then you will automatically be married ‘in community of property’. The state assumes that all assets and liabilities of both husband and wife are shared. It simply means that everything which is his is hers and everything which is hers is his. It sounds just fine doesn't it … exactly in the spirit in which you entered into the marriage? Consider a few things however:

Disadvantages:
If one of you gets into financial trouble, creditors have a claim against both of you.
There is also no financial independence; if the wife wants to open a clothing account, the husband has to sign the account application; if the husband wants to buy a car, the wife has to sign too. Every business transaction requires the consent of both parties.
If one partner should die, the estate of both the deceased and surviving partner will be wound up because it is a joint estate – not great for the surviving partner who will find themselves in legal limbo for a while.
Advantages:
on death or divorce, the estate is divided equally

 

[Jester01]

Will the ANC with accrual mean my debt wont be hers at all, I really dont want her to have to pay my debt in anyway, shape or form.

 

[The_Ogre]

Let me clarify; it will not however affect her credit record, it will become her debt though should you die or something happen to you

 

[Jase]

I agree with Jakes, this would be the one time I approve of those three little letters 'ANC'

 

[_Jakes_]

Will the ANC with accrual mean my debt wont be hers at all, I really dont want her to have to pay my debt in anyway, shape or form.

Yes, with ANC both of you remain two separate entities when it comes to your finances.

The ANC is a standard contract that a lawyer will draw up for you before the wedding, it will cost you about R500 to get it registered.

 

[Jester01]

Let me clarify; it will not however affect her credit record, it will become her debt though should you die or something happen to you

That is fine, we share an account so all our stuff goes off the same account. My worry is that her name will be adversly affected, so she wont be blacklisted or anything?

 

[_Jakes_]

That is fine, we share an account so all our stuff goes off the same account. My worry is that her name will be adversly affected, so she wont be blacklisted or anything?

With COP once you are married if you default then the banks will becoming after both of you. If you work in a high risk financial environment then you can place all the assets in your wifes name and if things go belly up you won't loose your house, cars etc and because you are married ANC she cant run away with all your stuff because everything gets divided equally if you separate.

 

[AniV]

An ANC is always a good idea. It will protect you both in the event that anything goes wrong financially with the other.
Whether you take it with or without accrual is up to you, depends on what your work and income status will be like in the future and how you feel about being fair in splitting up assets.

If you have an ANC, and you owe a lot of money and those folks come after you, they can only attach your half of the assets. They cannot touch hers.
In this vein, if you buy a house or a car, I recommend putting it in her name instead of yours. That way they cannot touch it. But if you take the ANC with accrual and then get divorced, you will still fairly split up the assets.

When you go see the ANC lawyer to draw up the contract, he will explain everything. You can tell him your scenario and he will advise you on the best kind to draw up. In the meantime, start making an inventory of you assets and their approximate values. (both of you). This will come in useful in drawing up the ANC.

Whatever you do, GET AN ANC.
Getting married in COP is plain silly these days. Protect yourselves, both of you.

 

[_Jakes_]

That is fine, we share an account so all our stuff goes off the same account. My worry is that her name will be adversly affected, so she wont be blacklisted or anything?

F.Y.I. If one of you dies, your shared account will be frozen for months will your estate gets sorted out leaving the other person without money.

 

[Dolby]

Oh - I've learnt something too.

I knew both and jointly liable etc - but I always thought that it was from the date of marriage? So in other words, debt accrued beforehand is excluded?

Extreme example : I buy house, car, furniture and go wild with my credit card to accrue a total debt of R1 million. A few months later I meet someone, shotgun wedding - and go even more wild buying stuff for another R500,000 on credit card. I then get depressed and commit suicide.

Is she liable for R500,000.00 after the wedding contract only - or the full R1.5 million? Seems a little unfair if it's the full amount :/

 

[Jester01]

Ok thanks for all the input guys.

Busy arranging an ANC contract

 

[_Jakes_]

Oh - I've learnt something too.

I knew both and jointly liable etc - but I always thought that it was from the date of marriage? So in other words, debt accrued beforehand is excluded?

Extreme example : I buy house, car, furniture and go wild with my credit card to accrue a total debt of R1 million. A few months later I meet someone, shotgun wedding - and go even more wild buying stuff for another R500,000 on credit card. I then get depressed and commit suicide.

Is she liable for R500,000.00 after the wedding contract only - or the full R1.5 million? Seems a little unfair if it's the full amount :/

Debt acquired beforehand is included if married COP.

Marriage in community of property, says Ellis, is when there is no antenuptial contract and all assets and liabilities, whether acquired before or during the marriage by either of you, become a joint estate and each of you owns half. "You are together in assets and in debt. Many people don't take that into consideration when they enter into this matrimonial regime. If your husband is blacklisted, half of his debt is automatically yours and that is a very scary thing."

 

[Sinbad]

I would never ever get married COP. Ever.

 

[AniV]

F.Y.I. If one of you dies, your shared account will be frozen for months will your estate gets sorted out leaving the other person without money.

No account is ever a fully shared account. An account is always registered in one parties' name, and the other simply has full power of attorney on that account.
Whoever's name the account is in is the primary owner. If that person dies, that account will be frozen.
My hubby has 4 accounts, I have POA on them, they are "joint" accounts, we both deposit salaries into them, both have cards for them etc.
However I have my own separate Capitec Account so that if my hubby should die and his accounts are frozen, I am not without money for food and W&E and bond etc for at least a month. If I should die, hubby's accounts won't be frozen because they are in his name.

 

[Gozzy]

Disadvantages:
If one of you gets into financial trouble, creditors have a claim against both of you.
There is also no financial independence; if the wife wants to open a clothing account, the husband has to sign the account application; if the husband wants to buy a car, the wife has to sign too. Every business transaction requires the consent of both parties.
If one partner should die, the estate of both the deceased and surviving partner will be wound up because it is a joint estate – not great for the surviving partner who will find themselves in legal limbo for a while.
Advantages:
on death or divorce, the estate is divided equally

Yo,

I do get you on this one, I am married in COP (3yrs now) but why can I do the following without my wife?

*Bought her a car for her B-DAY on my name, which she had no knowledge of (no signature was needed from her, car is in my name tho)
*Cell phone contracts
*Clothing accounts
*Wife opened up an edgars account without my signature (this has been closed in the meantime again)
The only thing we bought where both our signatures were required was for our house...

Sorry I'm still new at this too

 

[_Jakes_]

No account is ever a fully shared account. An account is always registered in one parties' name, and the other simply has full power of attorney on that account.
Whoever's name the account is in is the primary owner. If that person dies, that account will be frozen.
My hubby has 4 accounts, I have POA on them, they are "joint" accounts, we both deposit salaries into them, both have cards for them etc.
However I have my own separate Capitec Account so that if my hubby should die and his accounts are frozen, I am not without money for food and W&E and bond etc for at least a month. If I should die, hubby's accounts won't be frozen because they are in his name.

Thanks for clarifying, the point is that if they don't prepare for the day that the main account holder dies the other person will be in trouble. All the debit orders will be going off the main account and if that person dies you will have to change all these things while also dealing with the death of your spouse.

There is no reason to get married COP.

 

[Sinbad]

Yo,

I do get you on this one, I am married in COP (3yrs now) but why can I do the following without my wife?

*Bought her a car for her B-DAY on my name, which she had no knowledge of (no signature was needed from her, car is in my name tho)
*Cell phone contracts
*Clothing accounts
*Wife opened up an edgars account without my signature (this has been closed in the meantime again)
The only thing we bought where both our signatures were required was for our house...

Sorry I'm still new at this too

Then procedures weren't being followed. You're supposed to co-sign everything.