Deep Cycle Lead Calcium Battery - Dead Cell

[Electron1]

I have a Royal 1150K Lead Calcium that has failed after 9 months.
According to https://batterydistributors.co.za/product/ns60/ (not bought from this supplier) it can handle high charging currents and is designed for life of between 3 to 5 Years on its spec sheet. Stage 6 load shedding killed it.
Warranty is non existent - no-one seems to honour warranty for deep cycle batteries - claim usage is out of their control.

So question is, can these batteries be refurbished? If so who to take it to?
If not any idea of what scrap value should be and who in Johannesburg will give a decent scrap value?

 

[catman37]

I can't answer for everything here but I am scrapping my 2 X 4 year old energisers batteries. BHP Solar will give me R10 per KG.

I also heard that Royals are actually High Cycle and not Deep cycle. Not sure how true that it

 

[Lupus]

I have a Royal 1150K Lead Calcium that has failed after 9 months.
According to https://batterydistributors.co.za/product/ns60/ (not bought from this supplier) it can handle high charging currents and is designed for life of between 3 to 5 Years on its spec sheet. Stage 6 load shedding killed it.
Warranty is non existent - no-one seems to honour warranty for deep cycle batteries - claim usage is out of their control.

So question is, can these batteries be refurbished? If so who to take it to?
If not any idea of what scrap value should be and who in Johannesburg will give a decent scrap value?

One night of stage 6 load shedding killed it? Though a lot of bringing it down to below 50% and lack of recharging will kill a battery.

 

[tRoN]

Get a ctek charger and see if it can be rejuvenated.

Who normally takes the scrap? A battery shop or scrap yard?

 

[Electron1]

If the battery has a dead cell, it is not repairable as far as I know.
The battery that has failed does not have a dead cell - it does charge fully on a electronic charger that supposedly has a desulfate mode https://www.adendorff.co.za/product/mac-afric-dc-12v6v-4-intelligent-battery-charger/

@Lupus In terms of Stage 6 - it was that bout of load shedding that took it out, because we get 4.5 hours at a time and we had 2 loadsheds in quick succession that day - yes it would have dropped below 50% as it could not have charged properly.

I suspect the battery should be properly desulfated (using american speak for desulphate), although there is a lot of controversy about desulfation. This is what I am hoping someone knowledgeable will respond on. It seems the agenda in the battery industry is to rubbish desulfation, but I would like to give it a try.

I see there is a local supplier for PulseTech - https://www.batterypulse.co.za/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8pLu8dGC5wIVCbLtCh2R4gG6EAAYAiAAEgLuE_D_BwE - anyone have any experience with them or other desulfators?

And I do have another battery that has a dead cell that I am looking to maximise the scrap value on, so anyone have suggestions in Johannesburg area?

 

[SAV]

Funny enough, I've also had 1 Royal 1150k fail last week and I'm battling to find a replacement. It was 12 months old.

The other one is still perfect. (was running 2x Royal 1150k @ 24v)

 

[Pineapple Smurf]

lithium FTW if you can afford it
its like your phone running flat, simply recharge it and off you go again

and the lithiums are dropping in price now nicely due to demand

 

[wingnut771]

lithium FTW if you can afford it
its like your phone running flat, simply recharge it and off you go again

and the lithiums are dropping in price now nicely due to demand

Dyness 4.8kWh Lithium-ion Battery Power Depot

The perfectly sized Wall Mounted Luthium-ion battery for the household or small business, 4.8kWh (3.84kWh 80% DOD @ 6000 Cycles Useable Storage)

solaradvice.co.za

 

[catman37]

Funny enough, I've also had 1 Royal 1150k fail last week and I'm battling to find a replacement. It was 12 months old.

The other one is still perfect. (was running 2x Royal 1150k @ 24v)

Try BHG Power. I bought 2 from them last week and they had lots of stock. They also take in Scrap batteries

 

[Paul_S]

lithium FTW if you can afford it
its like your phone running flat, simply recharge it and off you go again

and the lithiums are dropping in price now nicely due to demand

Lithium Ion and LiFePO4 costs about four times the price of lead acid batteries per Amp-hour but lasts many times longer and can handle deep discharging much better.

Example:
A PylonTech US3000B (3.2kWh usable) battery can do around 6000 cycles at 80% DoD and costs R19450.
Deep cycle lead acid batteries will do around 800 cycles at 50% DoD and 400 to 500 cycles at 80% DoD and you'll need about 5 x 12V 105Ah batteries to stay above 50% DoD and match the PylonTech capacity.

PylonTech = 6000 cycles at 80% DoD (16 years) @ R19,450
Lead Acid = 800 cycles at 50% DoD (2.2 years) @ R12,500 (R2500 x 5)

So lead acid will need to be replaced about 7 times over 16 years at a cost of R93,750 compared to a once off cost of R19,450 for the Li-Ion based battery.

Goedkoop is duurkoop.

 

[netstrider]

LiFePO4 is the way to go, IE Lithium iron phosphate.

Nothing wrong with lithium ion, but the former has other advantages such handling harsher operating temperatures.

 

[Steamy Tom]

Lithium Ion and LiFePO4 costs about four times the price of lead acid batteries per Amp-hour but lasts many times longer and can handle deep discharging much better.

Example:
A PylonTech US3000B (3.2kWh usable) battery can do around 6000 cycles at 80% DoD and costs R19450.
Deep cycle lead acid batteries will do around 800 cycles at 50% DoD and 400 to 500 cycles at 80% DoD and you'll need about 5 x 12V 105Ah batteries to stay above 50% DoD and match the PylonTech capacity.

PylonTech = 6000 cycles at 80% DoD (16 years) @ R19,450
Lead Acid = 800 cycles at 50% DoD (2.2 years) @ R12,500 (R2500 x 5)

So lead acid will need to be replaced about 7 times over 16 years at a cost of R93,750 compared to a once off cost of R19,450 for the Li-Ion based battery.

Goedkoop is duurkoop.

you would need them in sets of your voltage, so you would need like 8

 

[netstrider]

you would need them in sets of your voltage, so you would need like 8

You can buy 12, 24 and 48V from the shelf, not necessary to connect multiple 12V in series.

 

[Steamy Tom]

You can buy 12, 24 and 48V from the shelf, not necessary to connect multiple 12V in series.

i was saying for his 48V comparison... while it could work to connect 5 and still have 48V it is not recommended.

 

[Paul_S]

i was saying for his 48V comparison... while it could work to connect 5 and still have 48V it is not recommended.

I wasn't comparing system voltage but rather total capacity (Wh) vs cost.
A more comparable setup would be running 2 x 13V BlueNova 104Ah LiFePO4 batteries at R10,299 each vs 4 x 105Ah lead acid batteries at R2500 each (12V parallel setup).

It's still more economical to use lithium based batteries instead of lead acid over the long term and it comes along with less weight, less space requirement, no gassing/water loss issues, wider temperature operating range, higher charge and discharge currents, etc.

Lead acid doesn't make sense anymore.

 

[The_Traveller]

Lithium Ion and LiFePO4 costs about four times the price of lead acid batteries per Amp-hour but lasts many times longer and can handle deep discharging much better.

Example:
A PylonTech US3000B (3.2kWh usable) battery can do around 6000 cycles at 80% DoD and costs R19450.
Deep cycle lead acid batteries will do around 800 cycles at 50% DoD and 400 to 500 cycles at 80% DoD and you'll need about 5 x 12V 105Ah batteries to stay above 50% DoD and match the PylonTech capacity.

PylonTech = 6000 cycles at 80% DoD (16 years) @ R19,450
Lead Acid = 800 cycles at 50% DoD (2.2 years) @ R12,500 (R2500 x 5)

So lead acid will need to be replaced about 7 times over 16 years at a cost of R93,750 compared to a once off cost of R19,450 for the Li-Ion based battery.

Goedkoop is duurkoop.

Well then I had some really special LA battery if mine ran for 5 years and even then I was getting 8 hours of backup.
Some of my family members who have the same battery, didn’t even ask for replacement as yet.

Not saying one shouldn’t opt for lithium though...

Edit: my inverter shuts off when voltage drops to ~10.4v , which is around 75% dod ?

 

[TheChamp]

Well then I had some really special LA battery if mine ran for 5 years and even then I was getting 8 hours of backup.
Some of my family members who have the same battery, didn’t even ask for replacement as yet.

Not saying one shouldn’t opt for lithium though...

Edit: my inverter shuts off when voltage drops to ~10.4v , which is around 75% dod ?

I think it all comes down to how you are using the battery, back up use is fine, since there are no regular discharging cycles.

 

[Electron1]

Appreciate all the responses, however this is a budget issue. Right now I cannot afford to buy Lithium Ion. Just to replace with SLA is out of budget. Back to original post - anyone have experience with desulphation and does anyone do this commercially? I would like to give it a shot.

IMO it is probably much more lucrative for the suppliers to sell new batteries than to offer any assistance with older ones.
Thanks for the answers on scrap @catman37

 

[Steamy Tom]

Well then I had some really special LA battery if mine ran for 5 years and even then I was getting 8 hours of backup.
Some of my family members who have the same battery, didn’t even ask for replacement as yet.

Not saying one shouldn’t opt for lithium though...

Edit: my inverter shuts off when voltage drops to ~10.4v , which is around 75% dod ?

no, imo you are way deeper or already have a degraded battery.

 

[The_Traveller]

no, imo you are way deeper or already have a degraded battery.

That's besides the point , but to prove you wrong, load tests were done and they tested positive, I hooked the same 4 for another bloke and he is running fine for a few months already.