Definition of Uncapped?

Garyvdh said:
It's very simple .... If you advertise 4 mbps uncapped... then you must provide 4 mbps all the time for that uncapped. Otherwise you are not providing according to your own product description.

If you don't want to do that... then you need to call it something else.

This is not rocket science... just truth in advertising.
Click to expand...

I agree.

yes speeds will not stay a solid 4Mbps all the time as speeds fluctuate based on network utilization and whatnot.

But as these speeds are being manipulated by an ISP themselves ( throttling or shaping for ex. ) and they advertised said speeds, surely this is false advertising?

People should not klap ISP's for the "Uncapped" part as they are on solid ground ( your connection will not be terminated and you still have access to the internet, even if 1 bit of data is being sent ), they should klap them for not giving the speeds as advertised or fix the advertising since the speeds are being manipulated by the company themselves.

Which one would you believe:

* 4Mbps Uncapped ADSL
or
* Up to 4Mbps Uncapped ADSL ( Shaped line, please refer to T&C's )
 
Osiris85 said:
I agree.

yes speeds will not stay a solid 4Mbps all the time as speeds fluctuate based on network utilization and whatnot.

But as these speeds are being manipulated by an ISP themselves ( throttling or shaping for ex. ) and they advertised said speeds, surely this is false advertising?

People should not klap ISP's for the "Uncapped" part as they are on solid ground ( your connection will not be terminated and you still have access to the internet, even if 1 bit of data is being sent ), they should klap them for not giving the speeds as advertised or fix the advertising since the speeds are being manipulated by the company themselves.

Which one would you believe:

* 4Mbps Uncapped ADSL
or
* Up to 4Mbps Uncapped ADSL ( Shaped line, please refer to T&C's )
Click to expand...

The latter of course.
 
Garyvdh said:
It's very simple .... If you advertise 4 mbps uncapped... then you must provide 4 mbps all the time for that uncapped. Otherwise you are not providing according to your own product description.

If you don't want to do that... then you need to call it something else.

This is not rocket science... just truth in advertising.
Click to expand...

Yes, and you will have to charge R4,000-R8,000 per Mbps per month. You won't have customers at that price, so advertising is really irrelevant. But that is the cost of a guarantee.
 
Valerion said:
Yes, and you will have to charge R4,000-R8,000 per Mbps per month. You won't have customers at that price, so advertising is really irrelevant. But that is the cost of a guarantee.
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Somehow the whole world gets it right with uncapped solutions (at higher speeds and with more stuff to download legally) yet we can't.
 
SabreWolfy said:
Medical aid, car hire, satellite TV, contract cell 'phones, prepaid SIMM cards (RICA), Telkom lines, insurance, etc. There are always terms and conditions.
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Hence the face.

Of course everything has T&C's. Where has anyone said that there shouldn't be any T&C's?
 
PeterCH said:
Somehow the whole world gets it right with uncapped solutions (at higher speeds and with more stuff to download legally) yet we can't.
Click to expand...

Somehow the whole world has lower prices than us for infrastructure. Please compare pricing in the US WRT ATM backhaul and international connectivity to the same in SA. The blame for this lies with the telco's and the government (DoC and ICASA).
 
Osiris85 said:
But as these speeds are being manipulated by an ISP themselves ( throttling or shaping for ex. ) and they advertised said speeds, surely this is false advertising?

People should not klap ISP's for the "Uncapped" part as they are on solid ground ( your connection will not be terminated and you still have access to the internet, even if 1 bit of data is being sent ), they should klap them for not giving the speeds as advertised or fix the advertising since the speeds are being manipulated by the company themselves.

Which one would you believe:

* 4Mbps Uncapped ADSL
or
* Up to 4Mbps Uncapped ADSL ( Shaped line, please refer to T&C's )
Click to expand...

Does this count ?

2.Honesty

Advertisements should not be so framed as to abuse the trust of the consumer or exploit his lack of experience or knowledge or his credulity.
Click to expand...

http://www.asasa.org.za/Default.aspx?mnu_id=37
 
@SabreWolfy

If product is advertised as "EXCITING RED AND BLUE!" but terms and conditions state "Product may not be red, blue or exciting" then the terms and conditions are utter rubbish.

You cannot advertise X but only provide Y. You CONSTANTLY go on and on and on and on and on about T&Cs in multiple threads (and even a rather odd choice of signature) as if you've decided this is a mission of sorts but honestly...........as much as you might try and defend mweb redefining uncapped to be something that is in fact capped, you won't succeed.

Don't take this as a personal attack however, I'm sure you're a delightful lad when the only words you say aren't "Terms and conditions apply".
 
Nanfeishen said:
Does this count ?



http://www.asasa.org.za/Default.aspx?mnu_id=37
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly.

It would be nice if they advertise in a way as I mentioned in my previous post.

If, say Joe Average sees this product he would immediately understand what he is paying for. For those who have not read the T&C's, it would be nice if they said something like"

"Here is the product description you asked about and here are the rules what you may and may not do regarding said product".

There are people out there who do not understand the T&C's and it would be nice, before you sign up, for them to go through it with you and then you decide if you want it or not.

They should advertised in a way that gives laymens terms to the T&C's.

Not like "4Mbps Shaped Uncapped internet, unlimited all the time.................................................................but if you use a lot of bandwidth, we will automatically assume ( a very dangerous word ) that you are breaking the rules and kick you off. We don't care if we lose you as a customer, there are MANY people out there who want this product"
 
I still say mwebs current 4meg package should be called a "light" package and have a more expensive product with less tight aup.
 
Osiris85 said:
Yes, exactly.

It would be nice if they advertise in a way as I mentioned in my previous post.

If, say Joe Average sees this product he would immediately understand what he is paying for. For those who have not read the T&C's, it would be nice if they said something like"

"Here is the product description you asked about and here are the rules what you may and may not do regarding said product".

There are people out there who do not understand the T&C's and it would be nice, before you sign up, for them to go through it with you and then you decide if you want it or not.

They should advertised in a way that gives laymens terms to the T&C's.

Not like "4Mbps Shaped Uncapped internet, unlimited all the time.................................................................but if you use a lot of bandwidth, we will automatically assume ( a very dangerous word ) that you are breaking the rules and kick you off. We don't care if we lose you as a customer, there are MANY people out there who want this product"
Click to expand...

In that case the following could also be relevant:

4.2Claims

4.2.1Misleading claims

Advertisements should not contain any statement or visual presentation which, directly or by implication, omission, ambiguity, inaccuracy, exaggerated claim or otherwise, is likely to mislead the consumer.
Click to expand...

4.2.5Statistics and scientific information

Advertisements should not misuse research results or quotations from technical and scientific literature. Statistics should not be so presented as to imply that they have a greater validity than is the case. Scientific terms should not be misused, and scientific jargon and irrelevancies should not be used to make claims appear to have a scientific basis they do not possess
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4.5.1Claims, whether as to prices or performance, which use formulas such as “up to 10 kilometers per liter” or “prices from as low as R5” are not acceptable where there is a likelihood of the consumer being misled as to the availability of the benefits offered. Such claims should not be used–

4.5.1.1where the price or other advantage claimed bears no relation to the prevailing level of prices or benefits, and in particular where it does not apply to the goods or services actually advertised or to more than an insignificant proportion of them;

4.5.1.2where they apply only to spoiled or imperfect goods, or to goods or services which are in some respect less complete or subject to greater limitations than the bulk of those on offer.
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http://www.asasa.org.za/Default.aspx?mnu_id=37

IMHO, it seems tha the 4mb package, is misleading in a number of ways, and that the 4mb line is being exploited from being capable of 4mb to being fobbed of as an actual 4mb line.
 
Nanfeishen said:
In that case the following could also be relevant:







http://www.asasa.org.za/Default.aspx?mnu_id=37

IMHO, it seems tha the 4mb package, is misleading in a number of ways, and that the 4mb line is being exploited from being capable of 4mb to being fobbed of as an actual 4mb line.
Click to expand...

ASA have already ruled that the advertised term for uncapped as used by the ISP's is legal and not false advertising.
So quoting the ASA is pointless. Unless someone else can convince them otherwise.
now on the other hand the brand new consumer protection act might view the definition of uncapped rather differently.
But you would need big pockets and a good lawyer to take it all the way.
In the end the only way to get a good services is to vote is with your wallet.
And until people do that threads like this are pointless.
:cry:
 
Nanfeishen said:
In that case the following could also be relevant:







http://www.asasa.org.za/Default.aspx?mnu_id=37

IMHO, it seems tha the 4mb package, is misleading in a number of ways, and that the 4mb line is being exploited from being capable of 4mb to being fobbed of as an actual 4mb line.
Click to expand...

Yes! since the 4Mbps package speeds can be manipulated by the ISP, this should not be allowed. Especially when they try to punish you.

The way I see it, you are a heavy user, an ISP sees you download alot and they aren't making a profit from you, so they mark you. You call tech support and complain that something is wrong. They say bla-bla-bla whatever its not their fault. So you, being frustrated quit your subscription and the ISP got what they wanted, they not making a profit from you so maybe the next guy will be better. If you do not go out of your own and they see you have no intention of leaving, they slam you with T&C's and kick you off themselves

EDIT: clause 4.5.1 would contradict my previous suggestion about advertising "up to 4mbps Uncapped, refer to T&C's" :cry:
 
Basjohn said:
@SabreWolfy

If product is advertised as "EXCITING RED AND BLUE!" but terms and conditions state "Product may not be red, blue or exciting" then the terms and conditions are utter rubbish.

You cannot advertise X but only provide Y. You CONSTANTLY go on and on and on and on and on about T&Cs in multiple threads (and even a rather odd choice of signature) as if you've decided this is a mission of sorts but honestly...........as much as you might try and defend mweb redefining uncapped to be something that is in fact capped, you won't succeed.

Don't take this as a personal attack however, I'm sure you're a delightful lad when the only words you say aren't "Terms and conditions apply".
Click to expand...

exactly. T&Cs shuld not materially change the nature of what you have advertsied.
 
SHVAK said:
ASA have already ruled that the advertised term for uncapped as used by the ISP's is legal and not false advertising.
Click to expand...

Yes, however only apparently regards Afrihost, if there is a similar ruling for Mweb ????

Afrihost however said that their uncapped ADSL offering does meet the definition of an “uncapped” service as the user’s connection is never terminated, regardless of usage.
Click to expand...

The ASA considered various aspects of the uncapped ADSL claims, and ultimately ruled that the use of the term ‘uncapped’ is not misleading given that
Afrihost does not appear to ‘cap’ or disconnect users.
Click to expand...
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/adsl/14066-Afrihost-uncapped-ADSL-uncapped-ASA.html

Actually they set a precedent with this ruling, by ruling that Afrihost is uncapped due to not disconnecting users they defined the term "uncapped" which means that any ISP that disconnects a user, then cannot claim uncapped according to the ASA.
 
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