Did my lease Expire?

ryken said:
That is how I see it. Why then have contracts in the first place, going through all the effort of getting signatures, if we could just casually do it over email. Thanks for your input!
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I am a commercial landlord myself with douche bag tenants which are represented by the largest attorney firms in the country. If that helps at all with the credibility of my response. If a contract is not signed, that email wont hold up in court no matter what your intent at the time of sending the email.
 
quovadis said:
Next time conduct a joint inspection at occupation and when you leave and all items have to be completed together with sign off and 1 copy each and include photos of all meters etc - no recourse later.
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We did that... Im not an idiot!
He just decided to ADD things to the list After the inspection....

Im not sure why you are trying to defend a man whole has stolen 70,000 from me?

My point is for the OP - do not assume they will pay back deposit without a long, tiring fight (even though the CPA is clear!) so make sure you can reduce the amount he owes you in ANY way you can. Possession is 9 tenths of the law...
 
richjdavies said:
We did that... Im not an idiot!
He just decided to ADD things to the list After the inspection....

Im not sure why you are trying to defend a man whole has stolen 70,000 from me?

My point is for the OP - do not assume they will pay back deposit without a long, tiring fight (even though the CPA is clear!) so make sure you can reduce the amount he owes you in ANY way you can. Possession is 9 tenths of the law...
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Has a point ^. I currently have a commercial client who hasn't paid for utilities and rent for almost two years. Dragging the sons of btches to court, but they have money to basically bankrupt me in legal fees.
 
richjdavies said:
The courts suck! For both parties.

Unfortunately this means residential tenants get screwed by amateur landlords... And vice versa ;)
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Technically the court is a serious win for the party with the most money. Talking here mainly about commercial clients. Doest pay rent or utilities. Makes turnover in the tens of millions per month. Lawyers bill is say R100k per month. Profit all the way.
 
These are 2 snips from the Rental Housing Act (https://www.gov.za/documents/rental-housing-act)
I cant embed the link for some reason on mobile

SmartSelect_20201114-111030_Drive.jpg

OP has a requested a written lease. I doubt the email will hold up as a written agreement.

SmartSelect_20201114-110946_Drive.jpg

Here it explicitly states "in the absence of a written lease" (which OP has requested). So in terms of the law, OP is on a month to month with the same terms of the expired contract.

He can give one month notice legally and the landlord cant withhold his deposit.

Getting the deposit back is another story
 
Midnights_Ghost said:
He can give one month notice legally and the landlord cant withhold his deposit.

Getting the deposit back is another story
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100% agree. The law is on your side. But the law wont work, so the only chance you have is to either.
A. Waste your time and money
B. Pre-emptively take the law into your own hands!
Option C. Be nice and accept your loss

People doing B is exactly why tribunals exist - but they are so ineffective as to be pointless
 
richjdavies said:
We did that... Im not an idiot!
He just decided to ADD things to the list After the inspection....

Im not sure why you are trying to defend a man whole has stolen 70,000 from me?

My point is for the OP - do not assume they will pay back deposit without a long, tiring fight (even though the CPA is clear!) so make sure you can reduce the amount he owes you in ANY way you can. Possession is 9 tenths of the law...
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Usually when you conduct an inspection such inspection is not subject to change. It’s signed off stating that. Stop thinking I’m defending anyone - if it was done properly there’d be no basis for a claim. Get a decent lawyer and once again, stealing is not an alternative to the situation - if anything, you’re in a worse position.
 
quovadis said:
Usually when you conduct an inspection such inspection is not subject to change. It’s signed off stating that. Stop thinking I’m defending anyone - if it was done properly there’d be no basis for a claim. Get a decent lawyer and once again, stealing is not an alternative to the situation - if anything, you’re in a worse position.
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Your assuming the courts work.
They do not. They are too slow.

It is better to make sure at the point you leave to be as close to zero owed by either party as possible.

We just wish we hadn't paid our rent last 2 months like good boys and girls. I suggest anyone else does the same. If your landlord is a pain tell them in those last few months "take it from my deposit" - and have fact of slow, useless courts work for you rather than against you.
 
I ain't no attorney, so I am going with what ethics, common sense and logic would allow:

- The OP felt that he was paying above current rent for his proximity.
-He knew he could somehow negotiate a better rate for the upcoming year which he did
-Landlord agreed.
-OP requested it on paper (we all know that if you want something set in stone you ask for it on paper- maybe some technicality in some modern versions of the law allow an escape route, but let us look at the 'reasonable man scenario'
-landlord ignored his pleas)
-OP unsure what to do- with no contract in place he can be kicked out with short notice so he needs to make a plan
-OP makes a plan and finds alternative accommodation that doesn't require him to be waiting on tenterhooks to hear that he needs to be kicked out or not
-OP lets landlord know that he cannot wait in tenterhooks and has found alternative accommodation and wishes to end the contract which has not been in writing since a verbal discussion took place and landlord refused to reduce to paper
-Landlord throws a hissy fit because he can't have everything his/her way (I don't need to explain why)
-OP feels like he has somehow done something wrong, but his logic and morality tells him otherwise. Yet, by asking what to do, he is informed that he erred in many and major ways and needs to be taken to the cleaners by the legally-spotless landlord

I call bullshyte to this.
I have been and am both a landlord and tenant. Sh** must be in writing. Parties must comply both ways.

And yes, the fact that he requested stuff in writing indicates that he abides by written contracts.
 
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Jonny_9 said:
I call bullshyte to this.
I have been and am both a landlord and tenant. Sh** must be in writing. Parties must comply both ways.
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There was an existing lease agreement which reached its expiry. The landlord approached the tenant and said he wanted to increase the rental. The tenant replied and said he was happy to extend the rental for 12 months at an agreed amount. Both parties agreed. Meeting of minds and thus an addendum to the contract is concluded between parties. Basic contract law.

Even if no existing lease existed, any agreement for a period of time and an amount payable even VERBALLY would still constitute a lease. It’s enforceable.
 
Big question... if the landlord had asked OP to leave would OP have treated the email as a valid agreement?
 
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