Did my lease Expire?

RonSwanson said:
I still do not understand: If similar units were going for lower, and were available, you could have negotiated a lower rental, what was preventing that?

I also do not understand, you say that it's a big house and moving is a schlep, yet you ended up moving in anycase? It kind of contradicts your argument. I also do not see how he is a "...landlord from HELL."

Long story short, the issue is about whether you had a legal agreement with him or not. My take is yes, you surely do. Even a verbal agreement is binding, and in your case there is an email trail. The fact that you or he didn't renegotiate a new contract means that both of you were comfortable to renew on the old contract terms. If the old contract bound you to 60 days notice for 12 months, then that is what you and he agreed to at the time. It is also what the rental housing tribunal will regard as reasonable. If he suffers loss of rental income due to you not fulfilling your end of the agreement (premature notice) then he is entitled to claim it from you due to breach of contract.

If you do not wish to pay him for his loss, then you have two options: You could offer to assist him in finding a new tenant, so that he does not suffer a loss of income. If you manage to get someone whom he approves, then you are off the hook. The other option is to approach the Rental Housing Tribunal and ask them to make a ruling on the validity of the agreement and your new notice terms. Given that you appear to have plucked them from the air, I don't think that they will agree with you though.
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Honestly, I was/am fine with the rent I was paying-just didn't want them to increase it when other properties were going for less. Not sure why that's hard to understand
 
RonSwanson said:
I still do not understand: If similar units were going for lower, and were available, you could have negotiated a lower rental, what was preventing that?

I also do not understand, you say that it's a big house and moving is a schlep, yet you ended up moving in anycase? It kind of contradicts your argument. I also do not see how he is a "...landlord from HELL."

Long story short, the issue is about whether you had a legal agreement with him or not. My take is yes, you surely do. Even a verbal agreement is binding, and in your case there is an email trail. The fact that you or he didn't renegotiate a new contract means that both of you were comfortable to renew on the old contract terms. If the old contract bound you to 60 days notice for 12 months, then that is what you and he agreed to at the time. It is also what the rental housing tribunal will regard as reasonable. If he suffers loss of rental income due to you not fulfilling your end of the agreement (premature notice) then he is entitled to claim it from you due to breach of contract.

If you do not wish to pay him for his loss, then you have two options: You could offer to assist him in finding a new tenant, so that he does not suffer a loss of income. If you manage to get someone whom he approves, then you are off the hook. The other option is to approach the Rental Housing Tribunal and ask them to make a ruling on the validity of the agreement and your new notice terms. Given that you appear to have plucked them from the air, I don't think that they will agree with you though.
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I also do not understand, you say that it's a big house and moving is a schlep, yet you ended up moving in anycase? It kind of contradicts your argument. I also do not see how he is a "...landlord
 
ryken said:
I also do not understand, you say that it's a big house and moving is a schlep, yet you ended up moving in anycase? It kind of contradicts your argument. I also do not see how he is a "...landlord
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Christ, talk about selective reading! My post seems to have offended you deeply, but I want you to know I'M NOT THE BAD GUY HERE and despite what your line of questioning seems to suggest, I'm not trying to pull a fast one on the landlord here.

You also seem to look right past the fact that
1. I genuinely was, and still am under the impression that no contract was finalised, which is why I came here asking for advice.
2. The lease agreement specifically, very clearly states that if both parties agree to extend the contract that it must be formalised in the form of an addendum in order for it to be valid. But ok, I'm sorry for trying to follow the right steps, as per HIS contract!
3. That I followed up with the LL twice - requesting this addendum. If he was such an honorable, decent human being, as I'm sure all entitled, middle aged white landlords are in your view - why didn't he just respond and tell me not to stress, that our emails are binding?? I'll tell you why, because he was pissed at having to concede on not increasing the rent and without a lease would at least have the option of either demanding a higher rent or kicking me out in a few months time- when /if the rental market weighs in his favour again.


And obviously It's not this single interaction that made this guy an *******- it was a whole string of events- from lying about details about the property, not honouring his comittments to fixing basic, essential things around the property that were meant to be done prior to moving in-( for which I eventually paid out of my own pocket) , entering the property unannounced and uninvited using his own set of keys. The most basic query/question I had, no matter how polite I would word it, would cause offense as if it was a personal attack on him. And there's so much more. Throughout all of this I remained calm and polite - always. Rent always paid in full and on time, painted the entire interior and established a garden at my own expense.

After this last stunt of not responding and providing me with a signed Addendum was when I decided enough and came across a really sweet place for sale at a very good price-- offer accepted and bond approved within a week - because KARMA

Any more irrelevant questions or biased assumptions you'd like to make?
 
richjdavies said:
I have... they don't work.

(read above... waiting for 60k more than 14 months after leaving the place - WC Rental Tribunal has gone to mediation, Landlord dug in his heels... mediation basically said he's wrong, but he wouldn't accept it.
Tribunal has been unable to organise a date since...
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Get a decent lawyer to assist you
 
Unless you signed a new contract, no contract exists. The responsibility was on him to draw up a new contract for you to sign. He didn't. He will have his ass handed to him in court. All these people talking about verbal or e-mail being binding are talking rubbish. If they were correct there would be no need for signed contracts.
 
ryken said:
Christ, talk about selective reading! My post seems to have offended you deeply, but I want you to know I'M NOT THE BAD GUY HERE and despite what your line of questioning seems to suggest, I'm not trying to pull a fast one on the landlord here.

You also seem to look right past the fact that
1. I genuinely was, and still am under the impression that no contract was finalised, which is why I came here asking for advice.
2. The lease agreement specifically, very clearly states that if both parties agree to extend the contract that it must be formalised in the form of an addendum in order for it to be valid. But ok, I'm sorry for trying to follow the right steps, as per HIS contract!
3. That I followed up with the LL twice - requesting this addendum. If he was such an honorable, decent human being, as I'm sure all entitled, middle aged white landlords are in your view - why didn't he just respond and tell me not to stress, that our emails are binding?? I'll tell you why, because he was pissed at having to concede on not increasing the rent and without a lease would at least have the option of either demanding a higher rent or kicking me out in a few months time- when /if the rental market weighs in his favour again.


And obviously It's not this single interaction that made this guy an *******- it was a whole string of events- from lying about details about the property, not honouring his comittments to fixing basic, essential things around the property that were meant to be done prior to moving in-( for which I eventually paid out of my own pocket) , entering the property unannounced and uninvited using his own set of keys. The most basic query/question I had, no matter how polite I would word it, would cause offense as if it was a personal attack on him. And there's so much more. Throughout all of this I remained calm and polite - always. Rent always paid in full and on time, painted the entire interior and established a garden at my own expense.

After this last stunt of not responding and providing me with a signed Addendum was when I decided enough and came across a really sweet place for sale at a very good price-- offer accepted and bond approved within a week - because KARMA

Any more irrelevant questions or biased assumptions you'd like to make?
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Your post does not offend me @Ruiken, but I called bullschit on you for calling your landlord names when it is pretty clear that you have nothing to substantiate it with. You also made some contradictory remarks which needed clarification.

Both @quovadis and I have given you some pretty good advice, but now you are so disillusioned with the truth that you are getting your panties in a twist?

 
ambroseg1 said:
He will have his ass handed to him in court.
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He will, maybe... After several years of waiting. Its utterly pointless trying to get justice in SA. The CPA sets some very serious ground rules, but just like all the criminal law, it matters for F-all if the courts grind slowly.

This sounds so similar to my situation. The guy was dodgy, took 12 months to not really fix poor plumbing, and reneged on lots of promises on email and whatsapp (pay us for thr 3 days we must be out when replacing the roof - poof gone).
Maybe we have the same landlord!!!

Does he sometimes perhaps go by John and sometimes as Rod?
 
IMO you have a legal agreement the fact that an addendum hasn't been signed is a administrative problem. You negotiated a new price and came to an agreement so that should be enough for the landlord to reasonably expect the contract to continue. Email is also recognised as legal document so if you agreed to something in an email and it was accepted it should be quite binding. Let's be honest here though, you agreed to something and you are trying to find a technically to get out of it so you already know its not in good faith.
 
B-1 said:
IMO you have a legal agreement the fact that an addendum hasn't been signed is a administrative problem. You negotiated a new price and came to an agreement so that should be enough for the landlord to reasonably expect the contract to continue. Email is also recognised as legal document so if you agreed to something in an email and it was accepted it should be quite binding. Let's be honest here though, you agreed to something and you are trying to find a technically to get out of it so you already know its not in good faith.
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;)
 
ambroseg1 said:
Unless you signed a new contract, no contract exists. The responsibility was on him to draw up a new contract for you to sign. He didn't. He will have his ass handed to him in court. All these people talking about verbal or e-mail being binding are talking rubbish. If they were correct there would be no need for signed contracts.
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That is how I see it. Why then have contracts in the first place, going through all the effort of getting signatures, if we could just casually do it over email. Thanks for your input!
 
I do hope the people who are saying there is some contract here are not Landlords... As this is the issue lots of tenants have.

The CPA is VERY clear on this. If there is no written extension then the contract is month to month... Lots of landlords seem to think the CPA does not apply, but the law and courts will disagree -- they will just take forever to say it!

(And dont forget the interest... Mine is up to around 14,000 of our claim now!!)
 
RonSwanson said:
Your post does not offend me @Ruiken, but I called bullschit on you for calling your landlord names when it is pretty clear that you have nothing to substantiate it with. You also made some contradictory remarks which needed clarification.

Both @quovadis and I have given you some pretty good advice, but now you are so disillusioned with the truth that you are getting your panties in a twist?

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LOL
If you really want to give constructive advice next time- try to look at ONLY the facts presented to you and trust that the OP is trying to keep his query short but with as much context as needed.

All I needed was a "yes, it's binding" or "no, it's not binding".

I'm trying to wrap my head around why you would think a person would come here seeking advice, anonymously, and not be truthful about the facts, as they see it. What purpose could it possibly serve to not be truthful - as if one can submit mybroadband posts as evidence in a court?
 
ryken said:
That is how I see it. Why then have contracts in the first place, going through all the effort of getting signatures, if we could just casually do it over email. Thanks for your input!
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Stop looking for confirmation of how you see things - it’s flawed. Take my advice and negotiate an exit. You didn’t negotiate a new lease just an addendum. He proposed x, you countered with y and there has been a meeting of minds.
 
richjdavies said:
He will, maybe... After several years of waiting. Its utterly pointless trying to get justice in SA. The CPA sets some very serious ground rules, but just like all the criminal law, it matters for F-all if the courts grind slowly.

This sounds so similar to my situation. The guy was dodgy, took 12 months to not really fix poor plumbing, and reneged on lots of promises on email and whatsapp (pay us for thr 3 days we must be out when replacing the roof - poof gone).
Maybe we have the same landlord!!!

Does he sometimes perhaps go by John and sometimes as Rod?
Click to expand...
I don't know to be honest, but it wouldn't surprise me. Did you happen to deal mostly with a psychotic female?
 
ryken said:
LOL
If you really want to give constructive advice next time- try to look at ONLY the facts presented to you and trust that the OP is trying to keep his query short but with as much context as needed.

All I needed was a "yes, it's binding" or "no, it's not binding".

I'm trying to wrap my head around why you would think a person would come here seeking advice, anonymously, and not be truthful about the facts, as they see it. What purpose could it possibly serve to not be truthful - as if one can submit mybroadband posts as evidence in a court?
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So you are saying that we ought to be blinkered and trust the OP. Lekka man. :laugh: :ROFL::D
 
ryken said:
I don't know to be honest, but it wouldn't surprise me. Did you happen to deal mostly with a psychotic female?
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No - that sounds worse. But I know the type.

We ended up moving a few street away pay around 10k/month less 24ish rather than 34 (yes crazy, but thats nice house, nice area, nice garden, in right area) nicer house, nicer landlords.

Problem with deposit was squarely around him inspecting house with me, agreeing in person that everything was fine, then later by email saying actually there was 10k of damage. Not sure if that was just the start of how he then refused to pay the other 60k!
 
richjdavies said:
No - that sounds worse. But I know the type.

We ended up moving a few street away pay around 10k/month less 24ish rather than 34 (yes crazy, but thats nice house, nice area, nice garden, in right area) nicer house, nicer landlords.

Problem with deposit was squarely around him inspecting house with me, agreeing in person that everything was fine, then later by email saying actually there was 10k of damage. Not sure if that was just the start of how he then refused to pay the other 60k!
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Next time conduct a joint inspection at occupation and when you leave and all items have to be completed together with sign off and 1 copy each and include photos of all meters etc - no recourse later.
 
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