Diginet vs ADSL

[booswig]

I recently signed a contract with IS for an Uncapped, Unshaped Premium ADSL service (via Imaginet). I recently requested Telkom to upgrade my line from the 512 kbps to the 1024 kbps offering, after speaking to Imaginet (told me to speak to IS) and IS (told me that they just provide the internet, telkom determines the line speed).

Now, at paying R470 + R1539 = Quite alot of dough for a connection, I have found in the last month the following:
- Pings during the day that is extremely high (ranging between 100 - 800 ms). I cannot even play Warcraft on the net at times.
- Best pings of 40 ms late at night, up from the 16 I had when I had a SAIX account.

Now this is all blamed on Telkom, and the peering issues. However, the last straw were the email I just received telling me that my internet cost to upgrade to the 1MB line is R2,700 pm.... that is R680 + R2700 per month.

Now, at that cost I can get Diginet from SAIX. I am sure my pings will again improve. I however would like to know the following if anyone knows:
- What is the average monthly cost for 64KB/s Diginet,
- How does gaming pings to the SAIX servers change, will it improve or get worse (from SAIX ADSL)
- Can I get this directly from Telkom, any contact details ?

I will appreciate feedback.

 

[Franna]

From the IS Uncapped 1024K Business ADSL FAQ's:

What kind of latency are users going to experience?
Clients can experience anything from about 500ms latency depending on the time of day, as Business ADSL makes use of satellite bandwidth for international browsing and we do not have control of Telkom’s infrastructure.

So with international latency > 500ms via satellite you can forget about connecting to any international game servers.

No idea why local pings are that bad.

R2700 per month for a 1024K Uncapped ADSL solution (with international bandwidth via satellite) is absurd.

 

[booswig]

I spoke to SOAL.com, and they can give me 64KB/s Diginet, unlimited usage at about R1,622 pm ... that is even less than what I pay now.

 

[savage]

Silly IS. Now they make it sound like it is TELKOMs fault THEY route their customers over satelite?

 

[Roman4604]

"Pings during the day that is extremely high (ranging between 100 - 800 ms)"

I assume your also taking bout local pings, mine are fine ... maybe something misconfigured or faulty on your side ... all pings done just now off IS ADSL Uncapped ... only one a bit dodgy is SAIX (cause of peering fight) ...

Pinging ftp.is.co.za [196.4.160.12] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.4.160.12: bytes=32 time=19ms TTL=59
Reply from 196.4.160.12: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=59
Reply from 196.4.160.12: bytes=32 time=17ms TTL=59
Reply from 196.4.160.12: bytes=32 time=18ms TTL=59

Pinging www.mweb.co.za [196.2.63.110] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=37
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=44ms TTL=37
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=37
Reply from 196.2.63.110: bytes=32 time=45ms TTL=37

Pinging ftp.uunet.co.za [196.7.0.133] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.7.0.133: bytes=32 time=47ms TTL=245
Reply from 196.7.0.133: bytes=32 time=42ms TTL=245
Reply from 196.7.0.133: bytes=32 time=43ms TTL=245
Reply from 196.7.0.133: bytes=32 time=46ms TTL=245

Pinging www.mtnns.co.za [196.4.90.66] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.4.90.66: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=248
Reply from 196.4.90.66: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=248
Reply from 196.4.90.66: bytes=32 time=30ms TTL=248
Reply from 196.4.90.66: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=248

Pinging www.saix.co.za [196.25.1.200] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.25.1.200: bytes=32 time=153ms TTL=245
Reply from 196.25.1.200: bytes=32 time=157ms TTL=245
Reply from 196.25.1.200: bytes=32 time=181ms TTL=245
Reply from 196.25.1.200: bytes=32 time=158ms TTL=245

Pinging radium.datapro.co.za [196.41.3.154] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.41.3.154: bytes=32 time=25ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.41.3.154: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.41.3.154: bytes=32 time=22ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.41.3.154: bytes=32 time=26ms TTL=119

 

[guest2013-1]

- What is the average monthly cost for 64KB/s Diginet,

(you mean 64kbps) Around R3800. With a contention of 1:5 and a guarunteed (I think) throughput speed of 17kbps (thats 1.1kb/s or 8kb/s going full throttle)

- How does gaming pings to the SAIX servers change, will it improve or get worse (from SAIX ADSL)

It will get worse, Diginet is an old technology.

- Can I get this directly from Telkom, any contact details ?

Probably not, depends. Your best bet is to contact any service provider. (Like Mweb Business)

As for Internet Solutions Uncapped, keep a few things in mind :

You're going through a Cisco router that has VPN setup. What this means is that using your uncapped local (not for long though) it tunnels through IS servers and IS then connects you to the international servers.

Even though Telkom determines the line speed, ultimately, IS is determining the bandwidth usage (which is contended to something like 50:1)

That means BECAUSE you upgraded to 1024kbps, you can download twice as much as you could before with 512kbps. Which means it costs IS even more for bandwidth.

And the bandwidth? They get that (or have to get that) from Telkom. According to sources they're running most of their uncapped ADSL users through satelites if I'm not mistaken.

So R2700 is not as far fetched as you might have thought. With high speeds you can download more, costing the service provider more to provide this to you.

It would be interesting to see IS standpoint when Telkom caps local as well. Mwhahahahaha

 

[guest2013-1]

Oh, remember, if you're on SAIX ADSL and going to games.saix.net it would be fast. Because of the peering problems you might experience alot of lag.

Also note that because you're using SAIX (who doesn't need to buy any type of bandwidth because they are Telkom) you go straight to international. So all in all I think you'll have a better ping in warcraft. My ping averaged around 600ms without loss during the day. Business people during the day **** it up for the rest of us.

As for SAOL quoting R1600 for 64kbps unlimited use for diginet. Keep in mind that you still need to rent the diginet line from Telkom, and that it is usually subject to a 24-60 month contract.

STAY AWAY FROM DIGINET, IT IS AN OLD DECREPIT TECHNOLOGY THAT NEEDS TO BE BANNED FROM USE FROM THE ENTIRE PLANET

It's expensive to implement and expensive to maintain. Keep with ADSL, just make better informed choices. Ask yourself... do you REALLY need uncapped??

 

[Roman4604]

It would be interesting to see IS standpoint when Telkom caps local as well. Mwhahahahaha

Hard caps on Nov 1 will have no affect on IS uncapped services. They use a different (paid for) path in/out of the SAIX ADSL net.

 

[guest2013-1]

Btw, 64kbps you can be lucky to pull down 30 gig a month going full throttle for the entire 31 days.

If it's not speed of ping time you're after, then by all means, get diginet.

 

[guest2013-1]

Hard caps on Nov 1 will have no affect on IS uncapped services. They use a different (paid for) path in/out of the SAIX ADSL net.

I highly doubt that. The only way they could do that is by having their own Radius server authenticate the users. However, this only authenticates them and puts them on SAIX network. When Telkom puts in place the hardcap, that would mean local traffic is capped.

I know that they use the Cisco router to VPN via the normal local bandwidth to their offices and then go out from there to wherever (local is kept on the local network and doesn't route through them at all)

That is the reason why they can offer static IP addresses too.

 

[Roman4604]

via the normal local bandwidth to their offices and then go out from there to wherever (local is kept on the local network and doesn't route through them at all)

No this is the part thats wrong ... check my posts in this thread.

 

[Crash]

Remember most 64K Diginet packages will give you 64kb/sec Local bandwidth and 24Kb/sec International.
You don't normally get 64/64 symetrical packages unless you pay extra.
24kbits/sec = 3 Kbytes per second international ..........

 

[bb_matt]

Btw, 64kbps you can be lucky to pull down 30 gig a month going full throttle for the entire 31 days.

If it's not speed of ping time you're after, then by all means, get diginet.

Ya - for sure.

Back "in the day", Diginet was frikkin' awesome. In 1998/9 I was in an office with a 256k diginet line and it was pure unadulterated bliss !

Used to get sub-20ms pings to Quakeworld / Quake3 servers

Moved to offices with a 64k - hey, it was still frikkin' cool, later updated to 128k - but I was also a partner in the company, and f@ck, was it ever a drain on finances - with that line and a dedicated server solution, we we're spending R7000 a month.

Ouch.

 

[gkm]

I spoke to SOAL.com, and they can give me 64KB/s Diginet, unlimited usage at about R1,622 pm ... that is even less than what I pay now.

That sounds very cheap for 64Kb/s Diginet. It is probably not full 64/64. (local/international). Also, that price will certainly not include the line rental from Telkom.

Also note, it would be 64 bits per seconds, aka the small b, not bytes per second, aka the big B, so will be a lot less bandwidth than your 512 Kb/s ADSL. Per rand, diginet is a lot less bandwidth than ADSL. The benefits are things like for example it is more stable and has a static IP address etc.

Pings: It will get worse, Diginet is an old technology.

I disagree. International pings on my diginet line is lower than on my unshaped ADSL line any time of the day or night with 0% packet loss. And also rock steady, not jumping around like ADSL. Local pings depend on where I am pinging, given all the funny hassles with peering links at the moment.

Edit: I should mention that you need to get a diginet line that uses undersea cables for international to get good pings.

 

[asmith]

Hard caps on Nov 1 will have no affect on IS uncapped services. They use a different (paid for) path in/out of the SAIX ADSL net.

Quite. Interesting question this raises, is our R477/R680 we pay Telkom for 512 or 1024 line buying the bandwidth from our ADSL modem to the BRAS (ESR Router) ?

 

[Roman4604]

Quite. Interesting question this raises, is our R477/R680 we pay Telkom for 512 or 1024 line buying the bandwidth from our ADSL modem to the BRAS (ESR Router) ?

A clarification first, with an IS account the ESR is still used. The alternate path I mentioned is a direct IP route from the ESRs via private ATM links to the IS network.

As far as what the line cost from Telkom buys you, its anybody guess with their 'creative' business models, but it would seem logical they would claim its for the following ...

DSLAM port rental
ATM switching network usage
ATM bandwidth allocated per DSLAM port to the ESR
PPP termination services on ESR

I heard someone mention that Telkom provision 32Kbps of ATM bw per 512Kbps connection and I assume slightly less for 384, and again less for 192Kbps.

 

[ScrnScrm]

I heard someone mention that Telkom provision 32Kbps of ATM bw per 512Kbps connection and I assume slightly less for 384, and again less for 192Kbps.

a 16:1 contention ratio?
Dont suppose you know what bandwidth IS have on their ATM link to the ESR - last I heard it was 2 x 120Mbps lines. That still the case?

 

[Roman4604]

a 16:1 contention ratio?

As I said 'hearsay' so cant confirm

last I heard it was 2 x 120Mbps lines. That still the case?

Sounds about right, believe a 3rd one going in soon

 

[asmith]

I dont think the ATM link goes to the ESR specificaly. There are lots of ESR's arround the country. So IS or UUNET would connect to the ATM network. Not sure in Telkoms cost model who pays for the data to go from say the ESR at Belville to IS's ATM connections in Rosebank (I guess thats where they are).

But this begs an intresting question, since the cost is paid for, Telkom should let us connect from one ADSL line to another without an ISP and without further costs.