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Honorary Master
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Do you earn the same amount as your co-workers?
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Apart from level of education, additional learned skills, years of working experience and previous employment history, and actual delivery for the company, there's another factor: human connection.
As a teenager, I had a temp job for a few months, updating a section of an office's archives. In that company, there were about 60 people, one of whom was a very odd man, a happy sort, a helpful man, who always seemed to come to the rescue - out of nowhere - just when something went wrong, and save the moment. If anyone ever fell or dropped a file, he was there to pick them up. If a light went out, he arrived with a new bulb. If a secretary was overloaded with paperwork, he quickly got things up-to-date for her, when the receptionist needed to leave her desk, he took over, and when a professional needed someone to peruse and compare complex documents, there he was, too. He always had a kind word and a sympathetic ear.
I was confused and asked the office manager what his actual job was, as to me he seemed to flit around the office. The manager told me that, in the following week, that man would be on holiday, and I should come and talk to her again afterwards. When I did, she asked me what I'd observed about the mood in the office. I said he generally seemed to make everyone happy, and that it was rather somber without him.
Now that, she said, is exactly the reason we employ him. He has no manager, no specific task, no deadlines and he does as he pleases. He knows something about a lot of jobs in our company, and can help whenever he sees the need. His salary is worth every cent because, since he has been with us, our staff turnover has dropped significantly, and our productivity has increased. Whenever he's away for a few weeks, the morale drops, and when he returns, not only the mood but the efficiency picks up again. People simply get a boost and feel more motivated when he's around. "Remember him," she told me, "wherever you work in your life, and whenever there's a conflict about what anyone else might or shouldn't be earning. Ask yourself whether you're the person who contributes something to help all the others work better, too."
As a teenager, I had a temp job for a few months, updating a section of an office's archives. In that company, there were about 60 people, one of whom was a very odd man, a happy sort, a helpful man, who always seemed to come to the rescue - out of nowhere - just when something went wrong, and save the moment. If anyone ever fell or dropped a file, he was there to pick them up. If a light went out, he arrived with a new bulb. If a secretary was overloaded with paperwork, he quickly got things up-to-date for her, when the receptionist needed to leave her desk, he took over, and when a professional needed someone to peruse and compare complex documents, there he was, too. He always had a kind word and a sympathetic ear.
I was confused and asked the office manager what his actual job was, as to me he seemed to flit around the office. The manager told me that, in the following week, that man would be on holiday, and I should come and talk to her again afterwards. When I did, she asked me what I'd observed about the mood in the office. I said he generally seemed to make everyone happy, and that it was rather somber without him.
Now that, she said, is exactly the reason we employ him. He has no manager, no specific task, no deadlines and he does as he pleases. He knows something about a lot of jobs in our company, and can help whenever he sees the need. His salary is worth every cent because, since he has been with us, our staff turnover has dropped significantly, and our productivity has increased. Whenever he's away for a few weeks, the morale drops, and when he returns, not only the mood but the efficiency picks up again. People simply get a boost and feel more motivated when he's around. "Remember him," she told me, "wherever you work in your life, and whenever there's a conflict about what anyone else might or shouldn't be earning. Ask yourself whether you're the person who contributes something to help all the others work better, too."
zerocool2009
Honorary Master
Om groot poef te begin: bespreek salarisse!
My_King
Honorary Master
Doesnt matter, signed a contract which both parties accepted
RedViking
Nord of the South
None of your business.
As someone who's had 2 jobs in the last 20 years, I would disagree.
They key bit, being that my "loyalty" also came with a fair amount of professional growth. Either Person A did not do the same, or the company is crap.
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FiZeR
Well-Known Member
It might be the or. Worked my way up halfway up the ladder. Definitely an big increase from the start, but no difference in salary for getting my national certificate or BSc.As someone who's had 2 jobs in the last 20 years, I would disagree.
They key bit, being that my "loyalty" also came with a fair amount of professional growth. Either Person A did not do the same, or the company is crap.
Btw same company for just over 20 years.
Heh, there are plenty of awful companies - natural selection eventually solves the issue one way or the other. I assume the that you got your degree while working?
Some companies will have a qualification compensation policy (most don’t, but it does make sense if you want to retain employees who can now go elsewhere more easily), and others will require that you change your role to something that requires the degree.
A lot of the time people just continue doing what they were doing (because they’re good at it) despite the degree so it doesn’t really buy them a whole lot. This is one of the reasons I usually recommend a studying before working.
Often one has to then take step backward to take two steps forward (e.g., move from senior sys admin to junior/intermediate developer or some such) to capitalize on the qualification, which is painful.
Barbarian Conan
Executive Member
How did performance / contribution change after you got your national certificate or degree?
I could get an MBA, or do my Phd in advanced algorithms, but it wouldn't mean much for my current role.
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Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
It's not the same, and rarely is.
Everyone within a specific role should be within a narrow band IMO, with performance bonuses being the differentiating factor that separates the higher performers from the lower ones.
Instead it seems to be the other way around - various non-performance factors determine salaries, with bonuses being confined to a narrow band.
The problem is this encourages job hopping. If you enter a company at a low base, you have little hope of ever catching up unless you hop around...
Everyone within a specific role should be within a narrow band IMO, with performance bonuses being the differentiating factor that separates the higher performers from the lower ones.
Instead it seems to be the other way around - various non-performance factors determine salaries, with bonuses being confined to a narrow band.
The problem is this encourages job hopping. If you enter a company at a low base, you have little hope of ever catching up unless you hop around...
Barbarian Conan
Executive Member
As someone who's had 2 jobs in the last 20 years, I would disagree.
They key bit, being that my "loyalty" also came with a fair amount of professional growth. Either Person A did not do the same, or the company is crap.
I'm on my second job in 16 years. I don't believe in loyalty to a company, rather to people. The guy who sees my name on a spreadsheet come increase approval time, and who maybe hears my name maybe twice a year has no loyalty towards me, and why should he?
My direct manager, and the manager above him on the other hand works with me every day or weekly. For them I would go the extra mile and they would for me.
At least until the call comes down to retrench people, and then all bets are off. That's just how far loyalty goes.
FiZeR
Well-Known Member
To be honest I got a "senior" position without qualifications. So basically the qualifications caught up.
Still earning less than tradesman two levels down. But tradesman one level down also earning less than him due to aforementioned increases for bargaining unit.
Barbarian Conan
Executive Member
In my experience it takes a bit longer, but eventually I made a couple of bigger jumps to catch up.
Back when my friends and I discussed salaries, they would get a bump each hop, but then get lower subsequent increases while mine would stay more constant. 3 years later and we would pretty much be on par.
Something similar with a colleague. He jumped 2 or 3 times, came back, and we earned within 5% of each other.
Although, if I jumped more I could possibly have gained better experience and had a better role because of it.
FiZeR
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that helped. Loyalty to people helped me dodging retrenchment.
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I agree with that - I was using loyalty as a synonym for “being at a company a long time” (all we know about “Person A”), rather than the feeling that one’s continued employment is owed to the firm.
Barbarian Conan
Executive Member
A friend in a management role in a bank once told me how he had to scold an employee for severe underperformance, and the same day give her a 10% increase (he got 5%) and nice fat bonus. Bargaining unit...
Her salary was also much higher than I would expect a typical unionised worker to get. Unions are aparantly not just for the blue collar and call center workers...