Do you think forcing vaccination is ethical ?

[RiaX]

I was just thinking about this topic recently. Studying the disease patterns for my research to strengthen my case and perspective I came across this idea and I would like some input if you think its ethical or not and why.

So here is the question:

Do you think it would be ethical for governments to FORCE childhood vaccinations irrelevant of religious or any other reason (apart of medical) for one to qualify from being exempt ?

Here is the case:

In today's day and age cities are populated quite densely, the more people the more disease generally. Diseases are becoming more virulent and resistant to our current treatments faster than we can provide the counter measures. With most places being multi-cultural, multi-racial and so on its unfair on society that these people that dont vaccinate pose a danger to others.

Science is often misused and misunderstood for example the whole autism thing that started the vaccine issue in the first place. The UK had completely abloished many of the childhood diseases such as rubella, DPT and polio, however these diseases are making a return not by 'natural cause' but rather human stupidity.

So a possible solution would be to have children certified as vaccinated which will allow for entry to schools and other public facilities as this will provide safety for those vaccinated also it will force adults to take their kids for vaccines. The downside will be denying the child an education if the parents are EXTREMELY stubborn. Children are dependent on their parents in making the correct decisions to protect them and are unable to make a decision themselves thus if the parents are too stupid to realise that the vaccine is important for their child's safety and are scared of hyped up adverse effects the child is left in danger. Sometimes in medicine things must be done against the will of the patient and their guardians (like committing a psychotic patient into an asylum).

So again in conclusion

Do you think its ethical for government to step in on this type of thing ?

 

[SoulTax]

Mixed feelings really. I don't like the Nanny State, so government forcing people to do this kinda pokes me with a hot poker. But on the other hand, I completely see where you are coming from and get so annoyed with the hippies that refuse to get their kids vaccinated.

There is a girl in our prenatal group that didn't get it done. She is a complete hippie, into Starsigns and homeopathy and whatnot. She almost reminds me of Storm from Tim Minchin's 9 minute beat poem with the same title. Annoys me that she is that misinformed.

 

[Compton_effect]

I have a daughter(6) with a severe egg allergy and a son(2) with a partial immune deficiency.
In the formers case she can't get most vaccines as it is egg based, and in the latter's some vaccines just won't take. I've had 4 hospital stays with him for infections other kids shake off in a day or two.
They are both heavily dependent on the herd immunity normally found in groups.

I'm all for mandatory vaccinations and have already prepped myself for a nasty fight if a school ever tries to put a unvaccinated kid in their classes.

 

[ozziej]

I think vaccinations should be forced. They are the absolute best way of preventing disease. There was recently a report, can't find it now, about a surge in some childhood diseases because of one idiot researcher that claimed vaccinations caused autism.
If I hear of kids that haven't been vaccinated , unless like compton_effect who's kids can't, I'll moan at the parents, the same as I would about parents that dont strap their kids in when in a moving car.

 

[bwana]

I'm all for mandatory vaccinations.

I'm all for mandatory vaccinations and have already prepped myself for a nasty fight if a school ever tries to put a unvaccinated kid in their classes.

But didn't you just say your own kids were unvaccinated?

 

[Sinbad]

I'm all for mandatory vaccinations.
But didn't you just say your own kids were unvaccinated?

For valid medical reasons...

 

[guest2013-1]

Vaccinations should be the parents problem, not the government. The government has a responsibility to educate the parents about their OPTIONS, yes, but it should be up to the individual.

I know my sister had her kids vaccinated against the normal baddies. If some other kid doesn't have the vaccination and dies, not her (or my) problem really since my kids would already be vaccinated for most, if not all baddies. Fittest survive and all that crap.

Same belief I have that the parents are responsible for their education and the content they consume online and through television and video games. I've seen many "parents" go beserk because their child is undisciplined and/or violent and when you're protecting your own and making logical sense, they start blaming it on other crap EXCEPT for their ****ty parenting.

Mandatory vaccination? No thanks. I will be the person who makes that choice for my child, however, I will make damn sure I research it first and not just swallow some bull**** and put them in danger for no reason

 

[shogun]

Totally in favour of mandatory vaccinations, for serious diseases where vaccines have been proven safe in the general populace (and where no precluding medical condition exists).

You need to inform the parents though, and prep them with the correct information (full disclosure about any research). Some people don't learn from history, and we live in a post-vaccination world where it seems mostly fine, so the urgency around getting vaccinated is not front and center in our minds. Read up on the effects of polio and other diseases, and the struggles of the people that had to deal with it before vaccines, then talk about how we should have a "choice" about vaccinations.

If the anti-vaccination movement (can't really think what else it could be) starts gaining momentum, we'll quickly see a massive resurgence of pretty bad diseases... then we'll start having people complain that no one told / forced them to vaccinate.

People forget / don't learn from history way too often.

 

[noxibox]

Essentially unvaccinated children would have to be kept out of schools, day care, public parks, swimming pools and so on. No public funding would go to any school that accepts unvaccinated children. But all that would be very hard to police. If vaccines posed a risk anything like the diseases they help prevent, then I could understand refusing them, but the fear is based almost exclusively on lies. Not even faulty research, but outright, intentional lies.

Strangely enough the fact that it took hold is a symptom of fearing science and technology, our inability to properly assess risk, along with the general risk aversion and nannying that is encouraged and practised by the state.

 

[Celine]

it should be forced. history has shown that these diseases have been around and the vaccination was invented to prevent and eradicate these diseases. lets not resurface them due to stupidity on the parents part. one child getting the disease is enough let alone a whole bunch of children.

 

[noxibox]

I know my sister had her kids vaccinated against the normal baddies. If some other kid doesn't have the vaccination and dies, not her (or my) problem really since my kids would already be vaccinated for most, if not all baddies. Fittest survive and all that crap.

Some vaccines are only 70-90% effective. An unvaccinated child is a risk to the vaccinated.

 

[murraybiscuit]

Is there a difference between an adult not consenting and a child not consenting in this scenario?

 

[Praeses]

I have a daughter(6) with a severe egg allergy .

Many vaccines are indeed created in embryonated eggs, but "next-gen" vaccines are subunit vaccines created through genetically engineered vectors. I don't know how many of the current vaccines available are subunit vaccines, but at least in the future they will be widely available. I'm busy with a project aimed at creating various subunit vaccines

 

[mister]

Just throwing this out there:

http://www.nvic.org/Ask-Eight-Questions.aspx

 

[GforceD]

Vaccines should be mandatory but not forced since every person has the right to reject treatment.

 

[bwana]

Vaccines should be mandatory but not forced since every person has the right to reject treatment.

How does that work? Mandatory is, well, mandatory.

I'm not advocating the idea that the individual is physically restrained and given the vaccine - if that's what you mean - but as far as I'm concerned no vaccination then the school should have the [-]right[/-] obligation to reject the student, without exception.

 

[STS]

Forced?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...s-18-child-deaths-following-vaccinations.html

I don't understand why in a free world where your child is your responsibility to feed, clothe, educate, protect and raise, the government should step in and make decisions for you.

so they "force" a vaccination and your child dies. they "force" you to join the army at 18 and you get shot. they "force" you to circumcise your child to lower the spread of HIV. they "force" you to a have a certain number of children in China. they "force" you to pay taxes to support the uneducated or lazy.

i've vaccinated my son, but nobody is going to tell me what to do for him. i've had a "flu shot" before sponsored by the company, and what followed was the worst 2 months of my life health wise, i almost lost my job

 

[STS]

Just throwing this out there:

http://www.nvic.org/Ask-Eight-Questions.aspx

From the link:

Pronounced swelling, redness, heat or hardness at the site of the injection;
Body rash or hives;
Shock/collapse;
High pitched screaming or persistent crying for hours;
Extreme sleepiness or long periods of unresponsiveness;
High fever (over 103 F)
Twitching or jerking of the body, arm, leg or head;
Crossing of eyes;
Weakness or paralysis of any part of the body;
Loss of eye contact or awareness or social withdrawal;
Loss of ability to roll over, sit up or stand up;
Vision or hearing loss;
Restlessness, hyperactivity or inability to concentrate;
Sleep disturbances that change wake/sleep pattern;
Head banging or onset of repetitive movements (flapping, rubbing, rocking, spinning);
Joint pain;
Muscle weakness;
Disabling fatigue;
Loss of memory;
Onset of chronic ear or respiratory infections;
Violent or persistent diarrhea or chronic constipation;
Breathing problems (asthma);
Excessive bleeding (thrombocytopenia) or anemia.

If somebody offered you a pill to stop you form getting flu, but listed these as the likely side effects, would you take it?

not to mention that the "harmless" pill mothers took with kids in the womb which created deformed children.

if you believe in freedom, you give people the freedom of choice

 

[killadoob]

How does that work? Mandatory is, well, mandatory.

I'm not advocating the idea that the individual is physically restrained and given the vaccine - if that's what you mean - but as far as I'm concerned no vaccination then the school should have the [-]right[/-] obligation to reject the student, without exception.

Yea bwana haha i check mandatory and then forced and i was thinking huh.

No i don't think so. Depends on the vaccine but those vaccines for bird flu and so on, no that should be a choice. Same with flu shots. I know people who have their flu shot every year and they get sick. I never get one and i never get sick.

Not saying the flu shot is guaranteed to give you flu just saying, the choice should be there. Use as it as needed. I do not believe in the flu shot, i think it's mostly a money making scheme. Maybe i am just lucky but i never get the flu shot and i never get sick so why should i be forced by my company/state to get it?

 

[RiaX]

Vaccinations should be the parents problem, not the government. The government has a responsibility to educate the parents about their OPTIONS, yes, but it should be up to the individual.

I know my sister had her kids vaccinated against the normal baddies. If some other kid doesn't have the vaccination and dies, not her (or my) problem really since my kids would already be vaccinated for most, if not all baddies. Fittest survive and all that crap.

South Africa has amazing education prgrams for vaccination, they distribute flyers and send sisters to schools to pass on pamphlets and so forth. Do people read it ? Nope. Do people come with that "big pharma" conspiracy or hippie movement ? Yes

Vaccines are only as strong against disease as the weakest link. So by having this attitude you are undoing over 50 years of medical triumph. This is exactly why Im asking the question for people who are selfish, blind and stubborn.

If somebody offered you a pill to stop you form getting flu, but listed these as the likely side effects, would you take it?

not to mention that the "harmless" pill mothers took with kids in the womb which created deformed children.

if you believe in freedom, you give people the freedom of choice

This is the fear that is breaking the effectiveness of vaccines