Does switching your geyser off save electricity - A simple experiment

It is straight physics that x amount of energy is needed to heat water from y temperature to z temperature. When you do that, does not affect the energy usage.

If a geyser is full and heated to set temperature, but no water drawn, the only energy that is used to keep the temp at that temperature, is that needed to replace the heat lost to the outside atmosphere. This heat loss speed is a function of the insulation and the difference between the temperature of the hot water and the temperature of the air around the geyser. Naturally the better the insulation the slower the heat loss and the lower the replacement energy. This is why insulation of a geyser is important. Any water drawn for usage will have to be heated by using a set amount of energy, no matter when during the day you do that, so that is why it does not figure here.

The graph of heat loss speed, with regards temperature difference between the water temperature and the air temperature are however not linear. The higher the set temperature, and thus the greater the difference between the two temperatures, the quicker heat loss will be, if all else stays the same. There will therefore be an energy saving by running your geyser at a lower temperature, as the heat loss over time will be slightly less. If this is big enough to bother, I cannot say, but do know that for only me and the wife, 60 Deg C works fine, but 50 deg mean we have to leave some time between showers to let the geyser catch up. For bigger families you might run out of hot water quicker at low temperatures if everybody want to shower one after the other, thus the need to stagger or use a higher temperature.

There is thus only two real ways by which energy could be saved with an existing geyser system and piping where a family occupy the house constantly. Better insulation and lower set temperatures. Ideally one should lag the pipes to the taps also, but special attention must be given to the 1 to 2 meters nearest the geyser, as that part of the piping does allow heat the leak out of the geyser, even with no water running. I have measured the loft temperature at the geyser during the day and most days it is in any case between 45 and 55 deg C (my situation), so very little loss to the air would occur and therefore very little or no heating is done by the geyser, so it make no sense switching off the geyser if it ain't going to work in any case.

Please note that the above does not address the question whether you should switch a geyser off when leaving on holiday or at what interval you will reach a break even point if you do.
 
I think that we should conduct another experiment. We all syncronise watches. We turn off the main switches to our houses and then switch on all the lights, the oven, the TV, the tumble dryer and then at exactly 19h23 we all flip the mains back on.

They want to mess with power supply, we can mess with power demand.
 
I think that we should conduct another experiment. We all syncronise watches. We turn off the main switches to our houses and then switch on all the lights, the oven, the TV, the tumble dryer and then at exactly 19h23 we all flip the mains back on.

They want to mess with power supply, we can mess with power demand.

I have been saying this for months.
Consumer unrest - it is all the power we have. (Pun not intended).
 
Same here. Our usage has actually gone up after this 4-hour loadshedding started. I was expecting to have to buy less electricity but no.

BTW, did the municipality adjust your mate's pre-paid box via PLC or did they physically do a site visit to adjust the thing?

I believe it was all done remotely.
 
Hi

We've just posted our latest geyser test. We simulated a geyser time switch to try and understand how that would help.

http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,65, misc

As you obviously have the equipment to measure power consumption, please do this little test:

Fill a kettle with 1 liter of water and heat up to boiling.

How many kWh's did it use? I guess about the same as the reheating of the geyser with no load on it.
 
Was the geyser insulated? I suspect that a well insulated geyser would have fewer reheats.

Its a very old geyser (tag on the outside quotes its capacity in gallons not litres). I dont know how well the insulation works, although it cant be that bad with 4-6 hrs between reheating spikes as we noted.

We will be installing a geyser blanket soon and the results of that will be posted in a week or so.

Alan
 
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As you obviously have the equipment to measure power consumption, please do this little test:

Fill a kettle with 1 liter of water and heat up to boiling.

How many kWh's did it use? I guess about the same as the reheating of the geyser with no load on it.

You can work this out quite easily:

Q = (T2-T1) x liters x 4.183 = kJ of heat energy reqd to heat water from T1 to T2

Assuming ambient temp is 20C then T2-T1 = 80

Lets say you have a 2.5 litre kettle

Then Q = 80 x 2.5 x 4.183 = 836.6 kJ = 836.6 kWs

To convert to kWh divide by the number of seconds in an hour (3600)

So 836.6 kJs = 0.23 kWh
 
if you really want to save electricity get a solar heater

Yes you are right.

But the intention of my original post was to show that Eskom and various radio stations screaming for one to switch off one's geyser in order to save electricity is a load of hogwash.

Even the argument that switching off the geyser over peak periods doesn't wash with me as I've not seen any independent statistics to support the argument - the argument would only make some sort of sense if the greater majority of all geysers connected to the electricity supply would have their thermostats switch on and off in unison! On the expected random pattern only part of all geysers would be switched on during the 2 peaks. Further, if one looks at the test carried out by AlanB, one can see that only 3 - 5 short switch-ons occur when running on the thermostat.

While I am most certainly for the saving of electricity, I don't buy the geyser story.

A certain way of saving significant amounts of electricity would be to switch off aluminium smelters.

I don't like stupid people such as Eskom and DTI to lie to me in the hope that I am as stupid as they.

@AlanB:
Please post on mybroadband when you've run the lagged geyser tests.

Also, would it be possible to include the time axis details on your graphs? - this would allow a better understanding of the actual time periods for the various on periods.​
 
Also, would it be possible to include the time axis details on your graphs? - this would allow a better understanding of the actual time periods for the various on periods.

Um I'm not sure that I understand your request? Time IS marked along the X-axis of each graph. If you are referring to the actual time of day, that is also shown.

For eg the on the Time Switch Test graphs, each graph time period starts at midnight and the elapsed time is marked on the x-axis. By starting at midnight the elapsed hours is the same as time of the day, ie 6 elapsed hours is the same as 6am on that day.

If I am missing the point please let me know.
 
Um I'm not sure that I understand your request? Time IS marked along the X-axis of each graph. If you are referring to the actual time of day, that is also shown.

For eg the on the Time Switch Test graphs, each graph time period starts at midnight and the elapsed time is marked on the x-axis. By starting at midnight the elapsed hours is the same as time of the day, ie 6 elapsed hours is the same as 6am on that day.

If I am missing the point please let me know.

Sorry, I'm suggesting more detail, say 10 min interval with a mark at each 10 min. Just to make it easier to read off the exact amount of time the spike runs for. Maybe a table of the on-time, and duration would also do it?
 
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Very interesting experiment AlanB, thanks for the efforts.

Will it be possible for you to do the same experiment on a new geyser with better insulation? For comparison purposes?

Also - while you were doing the experiment, was the outside temperature about the same over the 4 days? (I'm just nit-picking!) :D
 
So I can almost sue governmint for installing their mandatory regulator switches in my house, and then penalising me for using more electricity because of their mandatory switches.
Loverly!
Please please please come to a scientific conclusion on this issue.

1st of all that theory is BS, it doesnt save anything.

2de the goverment know this, they just want to be able to pull the plug on anything that could disturb the power grid like.......mmmmmmmm.....4 million ppl taking a bath/shower at between 8-10pm. eg 4 mill geysers that they can switch off :)

They should subsedize(sp?) solar powered geysers imho
 
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Its a very old geyser (tag on the outside quotes its capacity in gallons not litres). I dont know how well the insulation works, although it cant be that bad with 4-6 hrs between reheating spikes as we noted.

We will be installing a geyser blanket soon and the results of that will be posted in a week or so.

Alan

Our geyser is a monstrous behemoth. I am sure it was salvaged off a 1800 ocean liner. :D
However, I imagine if it was radiating vast amounts of heat, it would be warm to the touch? Ours is cool/cold to the touch. Or am I being naive?


Yes you are right.

But the intention of my original post was to show that Eskom and various radio stations screaming for one to switch off one's geyser in order to save electricity is a load of hogwash.

Especially when they tell all and sundry to switch it off when going to work and back on when coming home. All I see is a huge number of geysers all needing to heat up at 5-7pm when most people get home. Well done to Eskom for creating a new high usage peak at supper time.
 
Our geyser is a monstrous behemoth. I am sure it was salvaged off a 1800 ocean liner. :D
However, I imagine if it was radiating vast amounts of heat, it would be warm to the touch? Ours is cool/cold to the touch. Or am I being naive?
Same here... and ours is below the ceiling in a small room - the room is not particularly different than any other room climatically speaking.
I think a geyser blanket would be a bit like a blanket for a maltese poodle... it would probably just make the poor thing itchy.
 
Especially when they tell all and sundry to switch it off when going to work and back on when coming home. All I see is a huge number of geysers all needing to heat up at 5-7pm when most people get home. Well done to Eskom for creating a new high usage peak at supper time.

This what I cannot get my head around.

Look at Alanb's test results. One gets 5 top up spikes in 24 hours, 2 of which apparently occur after using water. The energy used from reheating is .26 Units. (@AlanB - could you run a test where no water is drawn from the geyser for 24 hours?)

Eskom tells us to switch off the geyser when we leave home. But if we do not use any hot water while not at home, there will be immeasurable usage (compared with total usage), especially if the newer geysers have even better thermal insulation.

Eskom is lying, it's as simple as that, and, any thinking person will see through that lie, which will have the very unfortunate side effect of people simply ignoring the real options of electricity saving.
 
I think they just don't know what they are doing... all the real brains have already left Eskom house.
 
Please post on mybroadband when you've run the lagged geyser tests.

If I have the time then I will do so. Alternatively join our mailing list which we use to notify interested people of new results.
http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,56, misc

AlanB - could you run a test where no water is drawn from the geyser for 24 hours?

This was the 1st test we did
http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,53, misc

Our full list of tests are listed here
http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,51, Power Usage
 
2008/4/16 08:00 Site down?

I understand the server farm had some sort of a UPS issue. Its back up now.

We are switching to a different hosting provider today, so hopefully it wont happen again.
 
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