Dog Training - please help!

cerebus

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We have a 1 year old schipperke called Sensi - so named because she is very sensitive. But she is also VERY willful and cheeky. Now for the most part she listens to me very well, she is great with our boy and we love her to bits.

BUT she pees and poops seemingly at total random in the house. We can let her out, she'll come back in and 10 minutes later we'll find a drol in the computer room or something. And she's so sneaky and unpredictable that we have never caught her in the act.

What to do? I know we should catch her but we can't seem to do it. Spanking hasn't worked, locking her in a room hasn't worked...we're a bit at our wits end. She's already ruined one of our rugs. Any doggie training experts here?

Thanks
 
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You have to catch her in the act, and scold her at that point.

The only way to solve her sneaky-ness :D is to close down her environment so that she cannot sneak around where you cannot see her.

If you don't have a door for the computer room, then you are going to have to fence it off somehow.

Training:

You must pay careful attention to your dog's habits, and force a regular schedule.

Feed her an exact amount of food at exact times during the day. Ask your vet how much. Do not allow her any food other than that and stick to the times.

Then, time how long it takes before she must "go", and take her outside before that time.

Keep the regular pattern going until you and your dog are operating on a schedule.

Now that you have achieved predictable behaviour, you can start the training.

At the known times, say something specific, or rattle a dog rattle or whistle in a specific way. Do this before you take her outside for her session with nature. Do this every time, and be 100% consistent.

Eventually, your dog will think that that is the sign to "go", and will not go unless that sign is seen/heard. Also, if she falls off the bandwagon, you can scold if caught in the act, but more importantly, you can use that sign to help you get her back on the bandwagon.

Once you have her firmly on the bandwagon and under control, you can relax the schedule back a bit, though, a regular schedule does make life easier for the dog and you.
 
Sorry but then your doing a piss poor job of letting her know what she is doing is wrong.

Take her don't rub here nose in it but take her close enough and point and scream and smack her and tell her to go.

I have trained all my dogs this way and believe me they know they better not piss or crap inside. Before the animals abuse people come in and give me crap my dogs are treated like my family and roam our house, sleep on our couches/bed, live a very good life but they know that is one thing not tolerated by us.

Dogs are not stupid, she knows doing that is wrong but your not enforcing it hard enough i think. Of course dogs are sensitive to punishment but dogs are like kids if you do not punish them they will push you further and take more chances.
 
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Take her don't rub here nose in it but take her close enough and point and scream and smack her and tell her to go.

I've done that so many times already :( I don't have the heart to keep putting her nose in her own poo and yelling at her when it clearly isn't working. You don't think I would have come on here if I hadn't already tried the basics? We've put her in the closet, we've used a stick on her behind - not too hard because she's fragile, but she definitely feels it.
 
BUT she pees and poops seemingly at total random in the house. We can let her out, she'll come back in and 10 minutes later we'll find a drol in the computer room or something.
I loled:o

I have no advise... I'm the freaky cat lady:D
 
I've done that so many times already :( I don't have the heart to keep putting her nose in her own poo and yelling at her when it clearly isn't working. You don't think I would have come on here if I hadn't already tried the basics? We've put her in the closet, we've used a stick on her behind - not too hard because she's fragile, but she definitely feels it.

Dude you do not use to stick lol, you do not need to rub her nose in it, what you need to do her is let her know that when she does this you will yell and smack her and then throw her out for a few hours.

Do not rub her nose in it, do not lock her in a closet. Smack yell and throw out.

I hate smacking them when they are young but honestly man you need to grow a backbone or your not going to solve this problem. I decided to get a backbone after my dog would not stop doing exactly this. Those puppy dog eyes, wagging that tale looking all innocent works for a dog but you need to look past it and do it every time.

Do not use a stick and do not lock her in the house, lock her out the house after a hard smack with your hand, believe me it will sink in.
 
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Man - I DO smack and I DO yell and I DO chuck her out it doesn't work. Do you have any more advice? Oh wait - more smacking, yelling and chucking her outside right? Thanks
 
Man - I DO smack and I DO yell and I DO chuck her out it doesn't work. Do you have any more advice? Oh wait - more smacking, yelling and chucking her outside right? Thanks

I think you should reward her for pooping outside...Something like that:D

LOLZ!!!drol bwhahahahaha:D
 
Man - I DO smack and I DO yell and I DO chuck her out it doesn't work. Do you have any more advice? Oh wait - more smacking, yelling and chucking her outside right? Thanks

I'll bet you smack her like my fiancee, then they want to play and think it's a big game :p

No more advice, go to a dog trainer and ask them, you may need to send your dog to a dog whisper to see what the problem is. Sounds like she is doing it to spite you for some reason :p
 
I'll bet you smack her like my fiancee, then they want to play and think it's a big game :p

No more advice, go to a dog trainer and ask them, you may need to send your dog to a dog whisper to see what the problem is. Sounds like she is doing it to spite you for some reason :p

What dog do you have killa?
 
Sorry but none of the advice you have been given so far is correct. EDIT: Sorry, davemc is on the right track...

First of all: please dont ever hit your dog. Its cruel-they dont understand causality the way a child might (personally I'm not even for hitting in that context) so it really is just inflicting pain on them for no reason. Also your dog loves you in with that uniquely canine sincerity and it hurts their emotions even more than their body since they cannot understand what you are doing. I know people whose dogs flinch when the owners reach behind an ear to give them a scratch, its heartbreaking.

You need to understand how a dog thinks - to a certain degree your smacking and yelling is attention... good or bad-sometimes it doesnt matter. Remember that each dog has an individual personality, some individuals dont discriminate.

Become familiar with the concept of positive reinforcement. Dont do anything when your dog 'goes' in the house but definitely put her out once you find it. What you want to do is catch her in the act of 'going' outside then praise her like crazy! Really go nuts, full babydoggy talk, high pitched squeaky 'good girls'...even get your body language involved, ever seen puppies play? They tend to taunt one another playfully by pretending to run or jump but ending up in a 'false start' sort of posture (legs out front; head back and down; hind legs bent) - that body language is loud and clear approval and love for dogs, they all know it as a way to initiate rough play which is integral to pack hierarchy... never let her win a game once shes in this mode, ever. But use it as a non-edible treat, i.e.: she must earn this kind of play by doing something good.

Another obvious problem you have is that she does not respect the 'den', I bet (based on your description that she is allowed all over the house at any time, possibly even on funiture. This is the worst thing you can do. How can she 'park one' in the computer room for instance without you knowing if she dosnt have free reign of the house? If you arent in a certain room- she has no business there.

Imagine your home as a cave, subdivide it into three sections starting at the back gardens back wall and ending up right at the front gate. Good dogs are free to roam the the back and middle areas. Very good dogs get to go out front and are even taken for walks (beyond the front gate IOW). Bad dogs are not allowed out of the first area and maust remain in the back yard - it may take some physical force and a bit of patience on your side but she must go "OUTSIDE!" (loud, assertive voice) on command, leave the back door open but do not allow her in the house. You must assert yourself until she will sit right there, dying to come in through the open door but will not dare until you say "COME". Keep at it until you can actually leave her there for about 5-10 minutes without her trying to enter the house. Always return at some point and tell her to "COME", she should never enter under any other conditions after being told: "OUTSIDE!"
At this stage you have a very effective (non physical) form of discipline: "OUTSIDE!"
Dogs hate it, they are separated from the pack, lonely and most importantly: relegated to that cursed 1st 3rd of the den (lowest rung on the pack hierarchy.)

You mentioned her sensitivity - I am willing to bet that your tone of voice effects her profoundly whats described above will most likely be very effective.
You will find that you can spot her about to do something bad and just say in a very circumspect tone: "OUTSIIIIDE?" going up at the end as if it were a question and she will probably respond by changing course.

Another important point is that she identifies her bed (you most likely have some sort of doggy bed for indoor use as welll as the outside dog house) as her 'correct' spot to sit when she is allowed inside the den but is not interacting with other members of the pack. She should retutn to it on command ("LIE DOWN" or "ON YOUR BED") and she should never be allowed on furniture-she has a doggy bed. Our dog can be told when he is misbehaving: "Do you want to go outsdiiiide or on your bed?" 9 times out of 10 he will immediately return to his position on his doggy bed usually facing the person who scolded him in an attempt to earn apporval "Look I'm on my bed dont put me outside!"

Once you have these things down and the culture is such that this is how it works, no other way and no deviation from this formula ever I think youll find your dog housebroken (hate that word BTW) - it makes no sense for a dog to soil the den.. they just dont operate like that and thats why once you tap into that psychology things like this fall into place on their own.

You may get the odd mishap I'll come downstairs once every few months to find a number one in the corner near the back door but I'll also remember a those times a 3am wet-nose in my armpit that I ignored :)

Let me know how it goes and if you'd like any more info... a year seems a long time to deal with a dog soiling the house, especially when there is no need :)
 
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Sounds like good advice explain to me though, when i raise my voice and my animals have done nothing wrong they don't seem too worried, when i raise my voice and one of them has pissed inside the culprit puts his/her head down and acts as though they know they have done wrong?

How can you say dogs do not understand why you are smacking them? Obviously if you see one has crapped in the house you don't take into your car and smack it because then it has no idea but to me it sounds as if you think dogs cannot understand right or wrong which i don't agree with at all. Strange though my dogs are not afraid of me and crap outside, so i don't understand this whole don't smack a dog, sure beating the blazes out of it is not the correct way.
 
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thanks slinkymike. She is actually very good at taking verbal commands. She listens to me when I speak. You know she's one of these dogs that really tries her limits with you to the utmost. So from experience she needs a firm hand, and we do give it to her. She's not allowed on furniture except for in the evening she cuddles in our lap when we watch tv or something. But I agree she doesn't have a clear sense of boundaries in the house.
 
Mutts don't understand hidings, what they do understand is being dominated.

The technique is that you emulate what their mother does when they are still suckling, if you've watched her she'll hold a pup down until it relents. Try it, see how your dog squeels blue murder just from holding it down. Don't let it go until you are happy that it has accepted it's place in the heirarchy.

Also at same time say "No", don't shout or repeat yourself.
Repeating yourself just trains the dog to obey on the 3rd or 6th time.
You can do this at anytime you spot the dog and decide it needs taken down a peg or two.
From there you can house train easier once the mutt understand it's about to get nailed with the 'No' association.

Oh and it might be cute etc etc but never let the mutt sleep on your bed, that also confuses it's hierarchy in the pack.
 
How can you say dogs do not understand why you are smacking them?

Dogs dont remeber things along a linear timeline like humans do. Scientists have shown that they remember more of a 'collage' of images than cause and effect. This makes hitting ineffective in terms of tying the discipline to a previous action... its far too complex for them to grok.

Trust me I know the "I done summin bad" look (and chameleon creep;)) but its not going to help to hit becuase it doesnt tie back to that initial action along a linear timeline the way humans understand it.

Mutts don't understand hidings, what they do understand is being dominated.

The technique is that you emulate what their mother does when they are still suckling, if you've watched her she'll hold a pup down until it relents. Try it, see how your dog squeels blue murder just from holding it down. Don't let it go until you are happy that it has accepted it's place in the heirarchy.

Also at same time say "No", don't shout or repeat yourself.
Repeating yourself just trains the dog to obey on the 3rd or 6th time.
You can do this at anytime you spot the dog and decide it needs taken down a peg or two.
From there you can house train easier once the mutt understand it's about to get nailed with the 'No' association.

Oh and it might be cute etc etc but never let the mutt sleep on your bed, that also confuses it's hierarchy in the pack.

True - they do understand being dominated but dont you think that since you have the advantage of a human brain that behaving like a bitch is a bit of a waste? We are able to dominate in many more ways than a dog can - the course that I described is a combination of different dominant actions that will result in a solid obedience.

thanks slinkymike. She is actually very good at taking verbal commands. She listens to me when I speak. You know she's one of these dogs that really tries her limits with you to the utmost. So from experience she needs a firm hand, and we do give it to her. She's not allowed on furniture except for in the evening she cuddles in our lap when we watch tv or something. But I agree she doesn't have a clear sense of boundaries in the house.

They all do - she's little - mine is a 36kg English Bull Terrier and we have a young child in the house. Do you think that I can tolerate any kind of misbehaviour, even for a moment? ;)
Please trust me: do not hit.
Do away with the lap-top TV time, she is on her bed; outside or following you to the next room... thats it.
If she knows her places and when she is supposed to be in which one she will be much more secure and confident, dogs really thrive when they feel they are pulling their weight in the pack - modern pets dont need to do this to earn food or for the survival of the pack really so you need to kind of synthesise that and allow them to fulfill their role through behaving well.
 
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