Doubting my studies

DrewChan

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I am doing an IT Diploma through Unisa - this was a path chosen as after this I would like to become a SAP consultant.

Have I taken the long route?

I work full time therefore ITdip is going to take 4 - 5 years and I think the ABAP course is somewhere in the region of 6 months.

I am wondering whether I should have rather done a course in a specific programming language (to get me used to the subject) - which would have taken 1 - 2 years and gone to ABAP meaning completion in 2.5 years.

My current choice is 2 years longer- Wondering whether I should quit now and move to purely programming.
 
Well coming from a similar angle.

I have studied engineering and worked in IT for the most part. I primarily did Microsoft Tech (C#/SQL etc) and ended up at a company having SAP. So they sent me to get SAP Certified in ABAP. Here's my thoughts:

1. It's crazy expensive, the course in total was about 100k . It's a FOUR WEEK academy ending with an exam to get a certification
2. You do not have to do these courses. You can buy the books and write the exam and only pay for the exam (like R3k).
Very similar to Microsoft certifications really.
3. In this academy i was surrounded by a combination of people like,
[a] People like me with years of development experience who got sent their by their employer (this is the more common person it seems)
Completely "green-straight-out-of-high-school" people who doesn't even know what object orientation meant.


So i found ABAP to be easy and almost a little overkill to do such a course. It's a well defined language, it's fully object orientated (classes,inheritance,polymorphism etc etc) and if you're remotely familiar with something like Java or C# , it's a bit of a cake walk. Half of the ABAP academy is "fundementals" of programming, like object orientation. I distinctly remember being bored out of my mind one of the 4 weeks as the lecturer was trying to explain ALL these concepts (interfaces,static classes etc) in one week to people who's idea of programming is writing an Excel Macro. Very frustrating.

Either way , the people in the academy is exposed to job offers either directly with SAP or from their partners, right there at the academy. So they help people get placed.

However, i still believe having a degree behind me was still the better move. I could see these young people , totally clueless, they are on the course but they have no clue what they're really doing. They don't understand "systems" or "programming" on a fundamental level, they know where to click in SAP and what the ABAP syntax is, but in the long run you would want to be language agnostic. Chances are these junior ABAPers become code monkeys, not the glorious SAP consultant you imagine.

Remember ABAP is NOT the same as being an expert in SAP Functional modules. You get people who specialise in say Finance or Production or Sales on SAP , they are the ones doing implementations and "consulting". I bet most ABAPers write reports and enhancements and maaayybe write an full blown actual program that runs in SAP. It's not exactly "cutting edge" tech here, compared to all the movements in mobile and web tech these days.

It takes alot of experience in a specific area to become a proper SAP consultant imho. I would think it very difficult to become a SAP Consultant based on a few ABAP certifications, but easier if you have a diploma in say Finance or IT or Sales and then going from there.

The most important part, remember SAP is just one system. Not everyone uses SAP. It's something that can disappear as fast as Nokia or Blackberry. I definitely feel SAP is extremely expensive and combined with the complexity, alot of companies struggle to cope with it. In most cases companies are relying on outside consultants to maintain their systems , very expensive and people don't use the system as well as if they were managing it themselves.

So i would rather have a broader education that covers all the fundementals and then having SAP as a "specialization" , rather than only having SAP and being "stuck" when you suddenly want to change jobs and go do Mobile Development or move over to another ERP system (like Oracle ERP or Syspro or Dynamics etc)
 
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I am doing an IT Diploma through Unisa - this was a path chosen as after this I would like to become a SAP consultant.

Have I taken the long route?

I work full time therefore ITdip is going to take 4 - 5 years and I think the ABAP course is somewhere in the region of 6 months.

I am wondering whether I should have rather done a course in a specific programming language (to get me used to the subject) - which would have taken 1 - 2 years and gone to ABAP meaning completion in 2.5 years.

My current choice is 2 years longer- Wondering whether I should quit now and move to purely programming.

Doing a degree/diploma is about setting the foundations that you carry with you for the rest of your career. Doing a programming language course is about getting you to a certain level but it does not teach you any foundations.

In the real world you will change your language of choice as much as every 5 years but what you learn from a diploma/degree will still be of value when you retire.

I understand your dilemma as I was also looking for the easy route 6 years ago. I'm now finishing my BSc and no regrets as what I've learn't through these studies I can apply to any language I use.
 
I wish someone would take your internet away and send you to your room without supper

You don't think that he's lucky to have a job without any qualifications in today's job market? You're out of touch with reality as usual.
 
You don't think that he's lucky to have a job without any qualifications in today's job market? You're out of touch with reality as usual.

Agree.

Got a friend, hi son is arseing around at home (dropped out of school with Grade 9) and thinks he get into IT security through his online magical contacts. Trying to make him realise that he needs to study first.
 
The main reason for my thinking is SAP developers earn insanely well in my company - ballpark is between 50 - 80k. I feel like I am losing out.

Oh... should have mentioned ... company runs on SAP and its tightly intergrated so no changing anytime soon.

No guarantee of a position though.

Abzo - I started in a menial position that anyone could get - and showed abilities in various fields neccesary to get me where I am now.

Luck has little to do with it.
 
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What diabolus and cbrundsdonza said. Unless you are already working extensively in that space (which IIRC from another thread, you don't), I suggest doing a full diploma, in order to get the fundamentals. A short term, single language "programming course" isn't going to teach you the fundamentals (well, at least not properly).
 
Well coming from a similar angle.

I have studied engineering and worked in IT for the most part. I primarily did Microsoft Tech (C#/SQL etc) and ended up at a company having SAP. So they sent me to get SAP Certified in ABAP. Here's my thoughts:

1. It's crazy expensive, the course in total was about 100k . It's a FOUR WEEK academy ending with an exam to get a certification
2. You do not have to do these courses. You can buy the books and write the exam and only pay for the exam (like R3k).
Very similar to Microsoft certifications really.
3. In this academy i was surrounded by a combination of people like,
[a] People like me with years of development experience who got sent their by their employer (this is the more common person it seems)
Completely "green-straight-out-of-high-school" people who doesn't even know what object orientation meant.


So i found ABAP to be easy and almost a little overkill to do such a course. It's a well defined language, it's fully object orientated (classes,inheritance,polymorphism etc etc) and if you're remotely familiar with something like Java or C# , it's a bit of a cake walk. Half of the ABAP academy is "fundementals" of programming, like object orientation. I distinctly remember being bored out of my mind one of the 4 weeks as the lecturer was trying to explain ALL these concepts (interfaces,static classes etc) in one week to people who's idea of programming is writing an Excel Macro. Very frustrating.

Either way , the people in the academy is exposed to job offers either directly with SAP or from their partners, right there at the academy. So they help people get placed.

However, i still believe having a degree behind me was still the better move. I could see these young people , totally clueless, they are on the course but they have no clue what they're really doing. They don't understand "systems" or "programming" on a fundamental level, they know where to click in SAP and what the ABAP syntax is, but in the long run you would want to be language agnostic. Chances are these junior ABAPers become code monkeys, not the glorious SAP consultant you imagine.

Remember ABAP is NOT the same as being an expert in SAP Functional modules. You get people who specialise in say Finance or Production or Sales on SAP , they are the ones doing implementations and "consulting". I bet most ABAPers write reports and enhancements and maaayybe write an full blown actual program that runs in SAP.

The most important part, remember SAP is just one system. Not everyone uses SAP. It's something that can disappear as fast as Nokia or Blackberry. I definitely feel SAP is extremely expensive and combined with the complexity, alot of companies struggle to cope with it. In most cases companies are relying on outside consultants to maintain their systems , very expensive and people don't use the system as well as if they were managing it themselves.

So i would rather have a broader education that covers all the fundementals and then having SAP as a "specialization" , rather than only having SAP and being "stuck" when you suddenly want to change jobs and go do Mobile Development or something.


You have given me a few things to think about, thank you
 
You don't think that he's lucky to have a job without any qualifications in today's job market? You're out of touch with reality as usual.

I have a job without any qualifications in today's job market. I don't see it as luck. Luck is a made-up thing dumb people use to help them make sense of and give them solace in that it is okay to be lazy and that everyone else is just more lucky than them for having what they don't have
 
I spoke to one of our developers who suggested I run with both at the same time - Continue with Diploma and do SAP Cert next year. Means I can possibly work in an environment that correlates with my studies-

Heading home - thanks everyone for your input - will check in again later
 
I have a job without any qualifications in today's job market. I don't see it as luck. Luck is a made-up thing dumb people use to help them make sense of and give them solace in that it is okay to be lazy and that everyone else is just more lucky than them for having what they don't have

What is it that you do?
 
I spoke to one of our developers who suggested I run with both at the same time - Continue with Diploma and do SAP Cert next year. Means I can possibly work in an environment that correlates with my studies-

Heading home - thanks everyone for your input - will check in again later


Yes, i agree with that. SAP Certification is nowhere near as hard as a proper Diploma/Degree. You can probably study for a few days before the exams (which is a monkey puzzle type of exam ) like a parrot and get your certification. Even the course itself is pretty "follow-the-tutorial"-ish .

I say continue your studies, do the ABAP stuff on your own, buy the book online for R500 and write the certification , put on CV and go from there.


Also remember SAP actually uses 2 languages. JAVA and ABAP. It depends on what exactly is implemented at the specific site . Alot of these J2EE, Java enterprise stuff is SAP systems. So here you can already see, you don't want to end up just being an ABAPer and living and dying based on your programming language.
 
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I spoke to one of our developers who suggested I run with both at the same time - Continue with Diploma and do SAP Cert next year. Means I can possibly work in an environment that correlates with my studies-

Heading home - thanks everyone for your input - will check in again later

Sounds good + solid choice.

Good luck!!
 
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