Drop in Lithium battery replacement for alarm system

[deweyzeph]

So as I'm sure you guys know, load shedding hits the standard 12v 7Ah lead-acid batteries that you normally use with an alarm system or gate motor pretty hard. I'm going through one battery every 3 months at this stage. I've recently started reading about a drop-in lithium ion replacement that works just as well (apparently) and doesn't require any special charger replacement. This is the one I've got my eye on:

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Does anyone have any experience with replacing their alarm battery with a lithium ion equivalent? Any good?

 

[supersunbird]

Dont know that brand, but electric fence and gate motor work fine with Blue Nova equivalents.

 

[Lupus]

Hoselect LifePo4 LA127 Lithium 7.2ah 12.8v Rechargeable Battery

Hoselect LifePo4 LA127 Lithium 7.2ah 12.8v Rechargeable Battery (10004149) LifePo4 Lithium Battery Voltage: 12.8v Capacity: 7.2ah Max Charge Voltage: 14.6v Low Cut Off Voltage: 10v Max Charge Current: 7.2Amp Max Discharge Current: 7.2Amp Build-in BMS (Battery management System) Used in UPS, Gate...

www.electromannsa.com

But you'll need type F2 to F1 converters

 

[Adeptus Mechanicus]

If you're going through them at that rate you must be frequently discharging the battery completely.

Your system is either not charging the battery quick enough between load shedding cycles, the capacity of the battery is not sufficient for the system or the answer lies somewhere in between.

Changing to lithium will bring you extra longevity if continually discharged, but really you should look at uprating your charger and battery capacity as well. Depending on your current setup you could do both for the price of one lithium battery.

 

[Lupus]

If you're going through them at that rate you must be frequently discharging the battery completely.

Your system is either not charging the battery quick enough between load shedding cycles, the capacity of the battery is not sufficient for the system (do you have many beams?) or the answer lies somewhere in between.

Changing to lithium will bring you extra longevity if continually discharged, but really you should look at uprating your charger and battery capacity as well.

My batteries get shot thanks to load shedding, but that was during the 4 hour sessions where we sometimes would also be every 12 hours.

 

[deweyzeph]

If you're going through them at that rate you must be frequently discharging the battery completely.

Your system is either not charging the battery quick enough between load shedding cycles, the capacity of the battery is not sufficient for the system (do you have many beams?) or the answer lies somewhere in between.

Changing to lithium will bring you extra longevity if continually discharged, but really you should look at uprating your charger and battery capacity as well.

Yeah, I've got almost 20 zones in my Paradox System. 5 wired, and 15 wireless. Never had any problem for odd power failure, but my guess is that these standard lead-acid batteries just were never designed to handle constant 2,5 hour power failures, sometimes twice a day. Plus it has to power the security company radio as well.

 

[Grubscrew]

Also recently using the Blue Nova Drop in 8ah and I am very impressed.

 

[Adeptus Mechanicus]

Yeah, I've got almost 20 zones in my Paradox System. 5 wired, and 15 wireless. Never had any problem for odd power failure, but my guess is that these standard lead-acid batteries just were never designed to handle constant 2,5 hour power failures, sometimes twice a day.

First thing to do is check what charge rate your Paradox board is set to. Usually it's left on 350ma, but if you have 40VA transformer you can safely set it the maximum (usually 700 or 850ma).

Alternatively, look at splitting the supply using something like a Sherlo 6.4A UPS paired with a 18Ah battery. The existing 7Ah will take care of running the main board and all your sensors run to the much faster charging and higher capacity 18ah setup.

 

[deweyzeph]

First thing to do is check what charge rate your Paradox board is set to. Usually it's left on 350ma, but if you have 40VA transformer you can safely set it the maximum (usually 700 or 850ma).

Alternatively, look at splitting the supply using something like a Sherlo 6.4A UPS paired with a 18Ah battery. The existing 7Ah will take care of running the main board and all your sensors run to the much faster charging and higher capacity 18ah setup.

Thanks, I'll definitely check that out

 

[Geoff.D]

Yeah, I've got almost 20 zones in my Paradox System. 5 wired, and 15 wireless. Never had any problem for odd power failure, but my guess is that these standard lead-acid batteries just were never designed to handle constant 2,5 hour power failures, sometimes twice a day. Plus it has to power the security company radio as well.

It does not matter how you look at the problem.
The trickle chargers typically included in alarm systems and gate system just cannot handle continuous LS events.
You will kill that expensive lithium battery almost as often.

The problem is all these systems allow the batteries to discharge to 10.7 Volt before they cut out. Repeat that a few times and the battery is shot.
The ONLY answer is to adjust the the cut off voltage in the alarm system to 11.3 volt minimum. And get a charger able to properly charge the battery at a much higher rate than the typical trickle charge rate provided for.
Don't fool yourself that the drop in lithium's are going to give you the advertised long life, built in BMS regardless.

 

[powermzii]

Hoselect LifePo4 LA127 Lithium 7.2ah 12.8v Rechargeable Battery

Hoselect LifePo4 LA127 Lithium 7.2ah 12.8v Rechargeable Battery (10004149) LifePo4 Lithium Battery Voltage: 12.8v Capacity: 7.2ah Max Charge Voltage: 14.6v Low Cut Off Voltage: 10v Max Charge Current: 7.2Amp Max Discharge Current: 7.2Amp Build-in BMS (Battery management System) Used in UPS, Gate...

www.electromannsa.com

But you'll need type F2 to F1 converters

Discovered this after the fact...hahaha...

 

[Lupus]

Discovered this after the fact...hahaha...

Yeah the problem with electroman is they'll argue with you and say these are normal batteries and will fit in everything.
Geewiz was like oh right our mistake you'll need these converters.

 

[MidnightZA]

First thing to do is check what charge rate your Paradox board is set to. Usually it's left on 350ma, but if you have 40VA transformer you can safely set it the maximum (usually 700 or 850ma).

How does one check this?

 

[Adeptus Mechanicus]

How does one check this?

Either check with the installer or connect to your panel via Babyware (if a Paradox)

 

[deweyzeph]

How does one check this?

Connect to your Paradox with Babyware, then right click on Area, select "Properties", and then the "Areas" window opens up. In that window, select the "System" tab, right at the end of the list of tabs, and on that page is a field called "Battery Charge Current" with a drop down list of available options. In my case with the MG5050, I have "350mA" and "700mA" as options.

 

[upup]

Mine is ids, installer don't have the software, and would not give me there code. After every loadshed it default to arm the alarm,

 

[deweyzeph]

Mine is ids, installer don't have the software, and would not give me there code. After every loadshed it default to arm the alarm,

If you've got the cash then rip out that rubbish and replace it with a Paradox system. Super easy to install it yourself and to program it from your laptop. Then call the security company and get them to install the radio.

 

[deweyzeph]

First thing to do is check what charge rate your Paradox board is set to. Usually it's left on 350ma, but if you have 40VA transformer you can safely set it the maximum (usually 700 or 850ma).

Alternatively, look at splitting the supply using something like a Sherlo 6.4A UPS paired with a 18Ah battery. The existing 7Ah will take care of running the main board and all your sensors run to the much faster charging and higher capacity 18ah setup.

As it happens I've got a 30VA transformer (Spectrum) for my Paradox. Do you think I could safely set the charge current to 700mA with that?

 

[Mista_Mobsta]

It does not matter how you look at the problem.
The trickle chargers typically included in alarm systems and gate system just cannot handle continuous LS events.
You will kill that expensive lithium battery almost as often.

The problem is all these systems allow the batteries to discharge to 10.7 Volt before they cut out. Repeat that a few times and the battery is shot.
The ONLY answer is to adjust the the cut off voltage in the alarm system to 11.3 volt minimum. And get a charger able to properly charge the battery at a much higher rate than the typical trickle charge rate provided for.
Don't fool yourself that the drop in lithium's are going to give you the advertised long life, built in BMS regardless.

Any advice on how to up the charge rate using an old DSC system that has the charger integrated into the unit? I am planning to bypass my garage (24V) and gate (12V) batteries by hooking them all up to a dedicated Lithium system that I can charge using a smart charger but not so sure how to do the same on the alarm system...

 

[Gaz{M}]

My 12V 8ah Gel lasted about 2.5 years of loadshedding. Not bad since we also had frequent multi-day power outages. Those 7ah are really cheap LA batteries and are only there to provide an occasional backup for a few hours.

I also set my Paradox to charge at 850ma via the keypad. It's easy enough if you have the installer code and download the programming manual. You just enter the code for the charging setting and then change the specific bit to 1 or 0.