Eastern Cape initiation deaths at 35

JungleBoy said:
It's easy to judge. These are naive and innocent kids (some barely 15) that rely on grown ups in society for guidance, so they can't really be labeled stupid.
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By age 15 you should be able to put two & two together when scores of kids from your area die each year during these initiations. You should know that the potential for you to be mutilated or killed is pretty real.

I won't even go into their parents & other adults involved here.

I reckon they are stupid.
 
ponder said:
By age 15 you should be able to put two & two together when scores of kids from your area die each year during these initiations. You should know that the potential for you to be mutilated or killed is pretty real.

I won't even go into their parents & other adults involved here.

I reckon they are stupid.
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And in your opinion, what do the 15 year olds do? Run away?
 
STS said:
And in your opinion, what do the 15 year olds do? Run away?
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Why don't they burn down the initiation schools ... seems to work for other 15year-olds around the country when they don't want to go to school
:whistle:
 
McSack said:
Why don't they burn down the initiation schools ... seems to work for other 15year-olds around the country when they don't want to go to school
:whistle:
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You're detracting from the issue - you care so little that you don't care if they face punishment for violence and arson but you care enough what they do with their own penis? :p
 
STS said:
You're detracting from the issue - you care so little that you don't care if they face punishment for violence and arson but you care enough what they do with their own penis? :p
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So many dodgy old men messing about with kiddie winkies you'd swear it was a RC jamboree.

But when they leave the stone age they could join us here where we have modern surgical procedures, sterile blades, anesthetics and antibiotics.
 
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The communities doing this must be aware of the dangers, but they continue anyway. If parents and tribal "leaders" couldn't care about the welfare of their children, then how on earth is government going to do anything?

Then we have government shooting their mouths off by saying circumcision is a possible solution to the HIV problem...

And all of this is before you look at how stupid the practice of ritual circumcision is in the first place. Even in a modern hospital, it is performed without anaesthetic...
 
Should these parents not be sent to jail for child abuse? If the kid din't want their peepee to be cut then they forcing them and this resulting in death sounds like child abuse.. Then we open a can of worms with the Jews ne?
 
STS said:
You're detracting from the issue - you care so little that you don't care if they face punishment for violence and arson but you care enough what they do with their own penis? :p
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Doesn't any guy care more about his penis? :D
 
konfab said:
The communities doing this must be aware of the dangers, but they continue anyway. If parents and tribal "leaders" couldn't care about the welfare of their children, then how on earth is government going to do anything?

Then we have government shooting their mouths off by saying circumcision is a possible solution to the HIV problem...

And all of this is before you look at how stupid the practice of ritual circumcision is in the first place. Even in a modern hospital, it is performed without anaesthetic...
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Magic and Witchcraft, Muti... How do you change a culture that believes in that? Marikana miners used Muti to stop bullets, I heard about that with the Bloodriver history lesson.
 
Mila said:
Should these parents not be sent to jail for child abuse? If the kid din't want their peepee to be cut then they forcing them and this resulting in death sounds like child abuse.. Then we open a can of worms with the Jews ne?
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That would be natural course of action but I suspect customary law might be the stumbling block to that.
 
ToxicBunny said:
But it should not come with that risk...
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Yes it really shouldn't come with that risk. And I think it is not true that they take the risk just to get rid of the foreskin, this custom is sold in such a way that it is a rite of manhood with circumcision being secondary. Kids have medical circumcision and still get coerced into going to the bush so it's not about the foreskin.
 
ponder said:
Say no. Call the police. Call child welfare.
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and hey should be made aware of these things, but for most kids it doesn't even cross their minds, they just go along with whatever their parents/community wants
 
You have to remember that a lot of these kids are not being forced to go per se. It is a result of their socialisation that makes them believe they need to pass this rite to be seen as men. Coupled with immense peer pressure from those who have been through it (even lies about what happens out there).
 
R13... said:
Yes it really shouldn't come with that risk. And I think it is not true that they take the risk just to get rid of the foreskin, this custom is sold in such a way that it is a rite of manhood with circumcision being secondary. Kids have medical circumcision and still get coerced into going to the bush so it's not about the foreskin.
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Main problems with initiation schools and I can only speak for Xhosa ones.

- We do not have resources to perform circumcision as it should be done. Just like in many industries, there is a skills gap here too.

- High unemployment is resulting in fly by night schools because its an opportunity to make money

- Parents who do not take accountability for their kids

- Young people who jump into initiation schools without consent from parents, leaving them vulnerable to abuse/incorrect procedures

There are many other issues but these are the key differences in my observation between 1985 and now.
 
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