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Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
Easy Equities good or bad?
- Thread starter lagoaty
- Start date
In my personal circumstances, I will invest 3k a month with them. If the 'what if' ever materializes and money have been skimmed, I am willing to lose 48k invested over the year. It will just be a lesson learnt for me. However, investing an initial 100K in the beginning of the year and then 10k-20k a month through them is not an option for me at all. The 'what-if' factor is just too big for me then.
This is why I say it is all fine with them, but I will limit the amount I invest through them until such time they offer me the opportunity to have share certificates registered in my name and sent to me or to be kept elsewhere.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Good god, these damn walls of text of moaning and moaning. What's the latest excuse now, fraud? Lol
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Deleted member 83147
Guest
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Excuse for?
For why they suck. First it was your money being at risk if they fold, now one of the top brokers in the country might commit fraud. Harping on and on about the same damn thing, it's starting to get a bit irritating. Ooh look at me, I invest 200k a year, look at all the moneys I have. I'll never invest large sums in EE, I'll use PSG. Fsck man...
It appears GT247 has been involved in some controversy before.
Mike Hoxbig
Honorary Master
Who hasn't? Every single one of the banks has at some point, yet we trust them with our money. I'm not promoting them especially after the EE screw-up with Lonmin where they arbitrarily decided on when to suspend trading on a share, but the point is it's no mom and pop operation. All this doom and gloom and harping about the same thing is a bit annoying. The point has been made, we don't need to read it over and over. But I guess some people like the sound of their own voice...
Ignore him, he is probably a fckn schill.
Everyone should decide who they want to entrust their money to.
The fact is, the question has been asked many times over in this thread - who does the shares bought belong to. The only answer people got, was that they were the owner of the shares and that they are noted as owners in the share register.
This is in fact the half truth and actually misleading. People who buy shares through EE and GT247.com is in fact not the legal owners, but rather beneficial owners. GT247.com is the legal owners of the shares, since the share certificates are issued their name.
The company can, at any time, move or sell your shares to offset costs elsewhere, and this without you knowing it. The question is, how is this done, is it accounted for, how are these transactions audited, are they liquid to fund accounts when required, how long can this continue for?
As far as I know, in the UK people are insured up to 65k, or somewhere around there, on these nominated accounts should something happen. What about South Africa? I do not think there are any protection or laws here to protect investors in these schemes at all.
The long and the short is, people should know they are only beneficial owners and they are not 100% protected by participating in this scheme. They are still open to losses in the event of theft or fraud. The risks are there.
If you are willing to take this risk, fine. I am, and I am willing to lose the little money I invest in them. The question is, are you willing too?
Everyone should decide who they want to entrust their money to.
The fact is, the question has been asked many times over in this thread - who does the shares bought belong to. The only answer people got, was that they were the owner of the shares and that they are noted as owners in the share register.
This is in fact the half truth and actually misleading. People who buy shares through EE and GT247.com is in fact not the legal owners, but rather beneficial owners. GT247.com is the legal owners of the shares, since the share certificates are issued their name.
The company can, at any time, move or sell your shares to offset costs elsewhere, and this without you knowing it. The question is, how is this done, is it accounted for, how are these transactions audited, are they liquid to fund accounts when required, how long can this continue for?
As far as I know, in the UK people are insured up to 65k, or somewhere around there, on these nominated accounts should something happen. What about South Africa? I do not think there are any protection or laws here to protect investors in these schemes at all.
The long and the short is, people should know they are only beneficial owners and they are not 100% protected by participating in this scheme. They are still open to losses in the event of theft or fraud. The risks are there.
If you are willing to take this risk, fine. I am, and I am willing to lose the little money I invest in them. The question is, are you willing too?
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Stay on topic, either contribute or shut up.
pratlou
Senior Member
Mmmh.. But last few months EE formed a ring fenced company to specifically manage these funds. Also I have few q's for
1.Why did EE require everyone who will be attending AGM's to bring ID in order to vote? Doesn't then highlight one is legally owner of the shares?
midnightcaller
Expert Member
Is there way to validate this?
Assume that an EE customer bought one whole share in naspers.
Can the EE customer contact naspers or naspers sponsor on the JSE and ask for confirmation that the customer name and Id are on the naspers share register?
Edit: IIRC every registered company is supposed to maintain a share register.
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Deleted member 83147
Guest
I have a few whole shares, so if someone knows where I can find this out, I'll try.
This is legally done. Both here in SA and abroad too. I almost think there is legislation requiring a ring-fenced company to be registered in which names' the shares are registered in order to keep them apart from the holding company's assets. This will prevent creditors from touching the shares should something happen to the company. Legally, however, I am not sure if creditors do have other recourse, but for now it seems to be safe.
That being said, the shares are still registered in the company's name. They are free to move shares or sell shares, without letting you know if they need to do this. Their system will still show the shares in your account, but the actual real shares may already be sold or moved elsewhere. They need to be liquid to pay you though, should you require your money. Whether they do this from their profits or by selling someone else's shares.
They do have a share register where your name is indicated and the number of shares in which company you invested in and the values is noted. So, in effect, you will actually be representing the company (GT247.com) to vote in the company which shares you purchased, in your capacity as beneficial owner. They will notify the company that you are the beneficial owner of the share and the person who will vote on based on the share(s).
You need to learn more about the difference between beneficial and legal owner of the shares.
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As far as I know and understand the terms from EE, they have their own share register they maintain. Or, in this case GT247.com and the ring-fenced company.
The Naspers share register will never have your name noted. The reason is that GT247.com purchase the shares on their name. The JSE will report this information to Naspers. So, according to their register the shares will belong to GT247.com. Only in the share register at GT247.com, will you find that you are noted as the beneficial owner.
This I am 100% sure of.
Your name will only be noted in Naspers's register when the share certificate is issued in your name.
SauRoNZA
Honorary Master
This appears to be the core problem you have with them.
You don't know the company...therefore they must be bad.
I could very well say the same for PSG then, as I don't know them, so how can I trust them with my money.
Might as well throw Old Mutual or Santam or Allan Gray or Coronation in there if you like based on someone never having used them before.
I fully understand where you are coming from and why you are reserved, but to suspect every new company of being another Fidentia is also quite ridiculous.
Just a few years ago I had never heard of Foord before and seemed very weary of this "small time" company and trusting them with my money seemingly too good to be true. Turns out they were just that good and performing really really well.
Your logic of risking "some" money also doesn't add up. You either trust them or you don't. You keep saying that you have nothing against them and that you'll put small money into them...each and every time mentioning PSG as an alternative as if you are being paid to advertise them.
Your love for PSG is just as questionable as your dislike for EE/GT247.
And, this is where you are totally misunderstanding my statement.
This is why I prefer investing larger sums with PSG:
PSG
1. I buy my shares.
2. The JSE issues the share certificate in my name.
3. PSG sends me the certificate.
4. All my certificates are held in a safe at home.
5. No one at PSG can sell my shares. I am not affected if PSG goes down.
EE
1. I buy my shares
2. I only get an email confirming the sale and an online dashboard showing data from their database.
3. They are the legal owner of the shares.
4. I am only a beneficial owner.
5. I never see a certificate.
6. Legally they are allowed to move or sell shares without notifying you.
7. They are a smaller company when compared to PSG. If something happens and a director steals a Billion rand, will they have a billion somewhere to refund it, or simply close down?
Why I brought up Fidentia is to show what happens when a director of the company starts stealing money, how easy it is, and how everyone will loose out. Not saying they are or will be doing it, but you need to trust 1, 2, 3 or 5 people never ever to get into a position where they will steal your money.
If you wish, read up on MF Global - exactly the same, when the directors one day, after many years, decided to sell off billions of rands of shares from the nominee account, and how thousands upon thousands of people lost their life earnings.
This is the difference between the two companies.
The difference in becoming the real legal owner of a share or having your shares registered in another company's name.
By having the share registered in your name and having the actual share certificate in your possession, you are guaranteed, as long as the company is still listed, that the money is yours and that no other person will be able to sell your shares or do with it as they wish. You will not be affected by any possible criminal activities in the company at all.
Again, the moral of the story here is that people should realize that when they trade through EE they are not the legal owners of the shares. They are only beneficial owners. GT247.com is the legal owner. They can do with the shares what they want. This investment is not risk-free as your investment will be tied to the nature of one or more directors of the company. SO, compared with investing with PSG you have additional risks associated, in addition to share prices and the risks associated with trading.
It is not that I do not trust EE or GT247.com - it is just that the risk is too big for me to invest large sums of money through them.
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Oh ffs, stop spewing crap about things you don't know. Go learn what legal ownership through a holding company means. You are the legal and beneficial owner of the shares you buy. Those are not two mutually exclusive terms. The JSE is tightly regulated and their rules require shares and funds to be held in a separate trust account. Creditors can't legally touch those shares or funds. Neither can anyone legally sell those shares without your instruction. If they do so it would be illegally.
As for protection, just look at how well Saambou and African Bank turned out. I don't trust any bank or financial institution. We are also not dealing with EE or GT247 but with their larger company Purple Group Ltd. There's just as much chance of PSG or any other company folding as there is of PG.
The problem for now is not with who to trust but with the issues and shortcomings of the platform.
As for protection, just look at how well Saambou and African Bank turned out. I don't trust any bank or financial institution. We are also not dealing with EE or GT247 but with their larger company Purple Group Ltd. There's just as much chance of PSG or any other company folding as there is of PG.
The problem for now is not with who to trust but with the issues and shortcomings of the platform.
