Easy Equities good or bad?

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Toothless said:
Okay that's it. I am sure you are drunk. Because if not, this has to be sheer stupidity. From their website:



You can only become the legal owner if the share is registered in your name, which it is not. It is in GT247.com's name as per their website above. They make you the beneficial owner. There is a massive difference between a beneficial owner and a legal owner of a share.

Legally, they can sell the shares, move it to accounts as required by the company, also stipulated in their founding statement, which nobody obviously saw this far nor cared to question. The same happened at the exact same company - MF Global, where client shares where sold to pay company debts. This quickly escalated to theft and plundering of accounts. Hundreds of thousands of people lost billions of dollars. Not a single person was charged criminally, as the company was allowed to do this, due to the fact that they were the legal owners of the shares.

I posted links a few pages back where financial experts warn people on this, and clearly stating that your money is not protected from theft and fraud.

You need to go see someone with experience to explain these things and the risks associated with it.
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Oh good grief. Come back when you've learned something about contract law.

whatwhat said:
Ok, so lets just look at the terms.

http://www.thesait.org.za/news/1041...ifying-the-Beneficial-Owner-of-a-Dividend.htm

"The term ‘beneficial owner’ is defined in section 64D of the Act as "the person entitled to the benefit of the dividend attaching to the share”. Therefore, the beneficial owner will not necessarily be the registered owner of the share. A share is essentially a mere bundle of rights to which a shareholder is entitled. As such, one person may hold the right to registration, another may hold voting rights, while another may hold the right to dividends."

So the term beneficial has nothing to do with who owns it, just the person who is responsible for declaring the dividends and the associated tax on it.

In the last sentence you'll see that there is also a person that holds the registration. That is what we were discussing. There is nothing in EE that says that you are the registered owner. That seems to be the holding/3rd party company. With PSG you get a certificate with your name and the shares on it.

As for the JSE and FSB rules, well, we've had a couple of cases where fraud like this has occurred even with all the rules in place. That it not to say that it will happen, but it can. By the time it has been picked up the people will be long gone.

No one is saying that EE is bad, and that they should be avoided. Just that you have to put trust in the company and the policies that you won't get screwed by it.
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Nobody is disputing that fraud can occur. It can occur with any bank which you give proxy to buy and sell shares. The key word here is fraud as that's what would be occurring if they break contract and sell your shares. You put trust in any company that you allow to manage your money.

Look at what they say. You are the TRUE owner of the shares. Stop focusing on the term beneficial. You own the shares legally. They are also registered and approved by the FSB. You think they would simply allow them to sell your shares or move them around? Apply some critical thinking.
 
Swa said:
Oh good grief. Come back when you've learned something about contract law.


Nobody is disputing that fraud can occur. It can occur with any bank which you give proxy to buy and sell shares. The key word here is fraud as that's what would be occurring if they break contract and sell your shares. You put trust in any company that you allow to manage your money.

Look at what they say. You are the TRUE owner of the shares. Stop focusing on the term beneficial. You own the shares legally. They are also registered and approved by the FSB. You think they would simply allow them to sell your shares or move them around? Apply some critical thinking.
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Whatever. Enjoy your 'shareholding' ventures.
 
So Toothless is hanging on to antiques instead of getting with the times because of his preferences. LOL
 
Toothless said:
And, this is where you are totally misunderstanding my statement.

This is why I prefer investing larger sums with PSG:

PSG

1. I buy my shares.
2. The JSE issues the share certificate in my name.
3. PSG sends me the certificate.
4. All my certificates are held in a safe at home.
5. No one at PSG can sell my shares. I am not affected if PSG goes down.

EE

1. I buy my shares
2. I only get an email confirming the sale and an online dashboard showing data from their database.
3. They are the legal owner of the shares.
4. I am only a beneficial owner.
5. I never see a certificate.
6. Legally they are allowed to move or sell shares without notifying you.
7. They are a smaller company when compared to PSG. If something happens and a director steals a Billion rand, will they have a billion somewhere to refund it, or simply close down?

Why I brought up Fidentia is to show what happens when a director of the company starts stealing money, how easy it is, and how everyone will loose out. Not saying they are or will be doing it, but you need to trust 1, 2, 3 or 5 people never ever to get into a position where they will steal your money.

If you wish, read up on MF Global - exactly the same, when the directors one day, after many years, decided to sell off billions of rands of shares from the nominee account, and how thousands upon thousands of people lost their life earnings.

This is the difference between the two companies.

The difference in becoming the real legal owner of a share or having your shares registered in another company's name.

By having the share registered in your name and having the actual share certificate in your possession, you are guaranteed, as long as the company is still listed, that the money is yours and that no other person will be able to sell your shares or do with it as they wish. You will not be affected by any possible criminal activities in the company at all.

Again, the moral of the story here is that people should realize that when they trade through EE they are not the legal owners of the shares. They are only beneficial owners. GT247.com is the legal owner. They can do with the shares what they want. This investment is not risk-free as your investment will be tied to the nature of one or more directors of the company. SO, compared with investing with PSG you have additional risks associated, in addition to share prices ....
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Do you maybe have a copy of these share certificates that you can post?
STRATE happened some years ago...
So if you're getting certifcates, I have some bad news for you.
 
Pegasus said:
Do you maybe have a copy of these share certificates that you can post?
STRATE happened some years ago...
So if you're getting certifcates, I have some bad news for you.
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I do actually, but cannot get and scan now.

But, here is the service I make use of at PSG to get shares registered on my own name. Yes, it is more expensive, but at least I know my shares are mine, registered in my own name:

Agent: Direct Settlement - Here the broker simply acts as your agent by buying and/or selling shares on your behalf, upon your instructions. Generally speaking, such transactions are by verbal agreement. You simply instruct the broker, in person by telephone, or online, which shares you wish to buy and/or sell or what the minimum price is which you are prepared to accept or pay per share is. Shares bought in this manner are registered in your own name.

When buying you are generally required to settle (i.e. make full payment) within three working days from the date of the transaction. Although this is the cheapest method of share-dealing, it is not without its disadvantages - investment advice is usually minimal, you are responsible for all administrative tasks (e.g. following up on dividend payments), and you have to keep abreast of the current market situation yourself.
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And, like I said, I have the option of them sending the certificates to me or they will safeguard my actual certificates to which I have access to view or collect when needed.
 
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Toothless said:
I do actually, but cannot get and scan now.

But, here is the service I make use of at PSG to get shares registered on my own name. Yes, it is more expensive, but at least I know my shares are mine, registered in my own name:



And, like I said, I have the option of them sending the certificates to me or they will safeguard my actual certificates to which I have access to view or collect when needed.
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Ok, so no certificates then.
 
I'm wondering in which century Toothless last traded shares...
 
Toothless said:
As far as I know and understand the terms from EE, they have their own share register they maintain. Or, in this case GT247.com and the ring-fenced company.

The Naspers share register will never have your name noted. The reason is that GT247.com purchase the shares on their name. The JSE will report this information to Naspers. So, according to their register the shares will belong to GT247.com. Only in the share register at GT247.com, will you find that you are noted as the beneficial owner.

This I am 100% sure of.

Your name will only be noted in Naspers's register when the share certificate is issued in your name.
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I have seen my name and associated details in an official company share register whose shares I bought through EE. So then the shares are not held by GT247 as postulated by you.
 
drkbstr said:
I have seen my name and associated details in an official company share register whose shares I bought through EE. So then the shares are not held by GT247 as postulated by you.
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Okay one-post-wonder, we can't just take your word for it. We're gonna need need proof.

What company was this, when did you see your name on the SR and how did you get access to the SR, so that one of us can verify this.

I really hope this isn't another horrendous marketing attempt from EE. If it is, their PR person needs to be fired, especially after the way that Romi made his first appearance.

BTW, EE's own website says that the shares are registered in "their" name with you marked as the beneficial owner.
 
I am going to make an attempt to draw a parallel that comes to mind.

When I bought a car on finance, I saw a copy of then "log" book. It's a one pager that is held by the bank. The document is issued by department of motor vehicles.

On the document
Title holder = name of bank
Owner = my name.

It was only after I had settled the bank that i received a copy of the document and a fully paid up letter. I took this document to DMV and they changed the log book

Title holder = my name
Owner = my name

This parallel maybe a poor one.
Feel free to critique.
 
Shalin_ZN said:
BTW, EE's own website says that the shares are registered in "their" name with you marked as the beneficial owner.
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I don't think anyone is really arguing that.

The question is rather whether it actually matters.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I don't think anyone is really arguing that.

The question is rather whether it actually matters.
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That is the big question.

This is common practice around the world it seems. Including here in SA with Strate, looking at the posts above.

Probably depends on who you ask - I am pretty sure if you ask someone who purchased shares via MF Global that they would give you a total different answer than a person who already invested 100k through EE.
 
SauRoNZA said:
I don't think anyone is really arguing that.

The question is rather whether it actually matters.
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No doubt, I just said that coz drkbstr said he saw HIS NAME in the share register of the company he invested in.

If the shares bought via EE are registered in their name (and it says this on with website), you see how i find it difficult to understand how the company will have his details on their share register.
 
Shalin_ZN said:
No doubt, I just said that coz drkbstr said he saw HIS NAME in the share register of the company he invested in.

If the shares bought via EE are registered in their name (and it says this on with website), you see how i find it difficult to understand how the company will have his details on their share register.
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I highly doubt it is true, but as always, I stand to be corrected.

Fact is, when GT247.com purchase the batch shares in Naspers as instructed by us, they will buy the shares in their own name. The JSE will report this acquisition to Naspers and indicate the buyer as GT247.com.

GT247.com have their own register in which they will note us as the beneficial owner. This is already noted on their website.

So, for all legal purposes, Naspers will have GT247.com recorded as the legal owner of those shares. GT247.com will have us noted as the beneficial owner.

When voting is required or dividends paid, Naspers will inform GT247.com to vote and also pay all dividends to GT247.com. In turn GT247.com will notify us that a vote is required and will then inform Naspers that we will represent GT247.com in the vote as beneficial owners of the shares. GT247.com will then also distribute the dividends between us in terms of the value we invested and full-shares owned.

Nowhere will Naspers have us, as beneficial owners noted in their share registers.
 
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