EDGE vs 3G vs LTE

[DTBA]

Ok so with the lunch of LTE and all that extreme speed, I got to ask.
A) Will the 60Mbps be divided amongst the tower users (10 users on one tower =6Mbps per user?)
B) Must there be new fiber cables installed to the towers ?
C) Edge covers more area then 3g why is that can some one explain to me? Will LTE cover more are or less then 3g?
D) U always see people telling u the more 3g users the smaller the signal gets. why is that? and will LTE also do this? and why does edge not do this?




I hope jannie can help me

I really want to understand

 

[dj_jyno]

I can only answer C for now. The lower the frequency used, the further the signal will travel. Theoretically that means that Cell C's 3G should have better coverage than EDGE because it operates in the 900 MHz band as opposed to 1800 MHz used by the older 2G standards. Vodacom and MTN 3G has a smaller coverage footprint per base station because they use 2100 MHz.

At the Vodacom LTE launch I see they used 1800 MHz, so that should give a similar footprint to EDGE. There are also talks with ICASA to open up 800 MHz, so that will see an increase in coverage per base station.

 

[DTBA]

I can only answer C for now. The lower the frequency used, the further the signal will travel. Theoretically that means that Cell C's 3G should have better coverage than EDGE because it operates in the 900 MHz band as opposed to 1800 MHz used by the older 2G standards. Vodacom and MTN 3G has a smaller coverage footprint per base station because they use 2100 MHz.

At the Vodacom LTE launch I see they used 1800 MHz, so that should give a similar footprint to EDGE. There are also talks with ICASA to open up 800 MHz, so that will see an increase in coverage per base station.

This is going to sound very stupid . If what u say is true ( I really hope it is) if u have edge coverage and your tower is upgraded to LTE u should have some signal?

 

[Ockie]

Ok so with the lunch of LTE and all that extreme speed, I got to ask.
A) Will the 60Mbps be divided amongst the tower users (10 users on one tower =6Mbps per user?)
B) Must there be new fiber cables installed to the towers ?
C) Edge covers more area then 3g why is that can some one explain to me? Will LTE cover more are or less then 3g?
D) U always see people telling u the more 3g users the smaller the signal gets. why is that? and will LTE also do this? and why does edge not do this?

A) Yes...but because of the higher spead of the average user will increase. Also...a tower is devided into 3 sectors. Each sector supports 60mbps and this will be devided between the sectors users...not the entire tower. I think. I hope I remember the facts correctly.

B) LTE without fibre installed at the tower is pretty useless. Fibre is required for LTE. A lot of towers have fibre now though. LTE will not be switched on @ a tower untill it has fibre backhaul.

C) This depends on a few things really. The band that it is deployed in. 900mhz travels further than 2600mhz etc. Also...it depends on the power setting on the tower I think and how the transceivers are tilted. But I imagine that for example with Vodacoms 1800mhz deployment...coverage per BTS should be similar to 2G coverage per tower.

D) I am not a 100% sure now...but I remember reading somewhere that LTE does not suffer from cell breathing like HSPA does. Also...the further you are from the BTS....your experience wont decrease as much as it would have with HSPA. Dont think that fully answers your question...sorry.

 

[DTBA]

A) Yes...but because of the higher spead of the average user will increase. Also...a tower is devided into 3 sectors. Each sector supports 60mbps and this will be devided between the sectors users...not the entire tower. I think. I hope I remember the facts correctly.

B) LTE without fibre installed at the tower is pretty useless. Fibre is required for LTE. A lot of towers have fibre now though. LTE will not be switched on @ a tower untill it has fibre backhaul.

C) This depends on a few things really. The band that it is deployed in. 900mhz travels further than 2600mhz etc. Also...it depends on the power setting on the tower I think and how the transceivers are tilted. But I imagine that for example with Vodacoms 1800mhz deployment...coverage per BTS should be similar to 2G coverage per tower.

D) I am not a 100% sure now...but I remember reading somewhere that LTE does not suffer from cell breathing like HSPA does. Also...the further you are from the BTS....your experience wont decrease as much as it would have with HSPA. Dont think that fully answers your question...sorry.

thanks ockie this helps really a lot. overall we should get a better experience with LTE then 3g

 

[CAPS LOCK]

What confounds me is, and this is due to lack of knowledge, what does "more spectrum" mean, Jannie mentioned this a few times at the conference? And, why does ICASA restrict frequency, as alluded to above who mentioned 800mhz being "opened up" wtf is it closed in the first instances, after all we speaking about fresh air having occupancy with radio frequencies..

 

[Ockie]

What confounds me is, and this is due to lack of knowledge, what does "more spectrum" mean, Jannie mentioned this a few times at the conference? And, why does ICASA restrict frequency, as alluded to above who mentioned 800mhz being "opened up" wtf is it closed in the first instances, after all we speaking about fresh air having occupancy with radio frequencies..

The 800mhz band is currently occupied by broadcasters. This is referred to as the digital dividend. Once South Africa has completed it migration to digital tv (terestrial) then spectrum will become available in this band for the mobile operators to use for LTE deployment. Unfortunately our digital migration have not gone very smoothly and has been delayed many times.

There is however the 2600mhz band available also for LTE....but DOC and ICASA dont know how to proceed with allocation of this band.

 

[DTBA]

the other thing is how can one use the same MHZ for vodacom and mtn ? does it not clash

 

[CAPS LOCK]

The 800mhz band is currently occupied by broadcasters. This is referred to as the digital dividend. Once South Africa has completed it migration to digital tv (terestrial) then spectrum will become available in this band for the mobile operators to use for LTE deployment. Unfortunately our digital migration have not gone very smoothly and has been delayed many times.

There is however the 2600mhz band available also for LTE....but DOC and ICASA dont know how to proceed with allocation of this band.

Thanks ockie, so you saying that most of the available spectrum (mhz) has already seen it apportioned to other industries and as such there is a shortage. Due to broadband explosion the carriers are bursting at their frequency seams, with what they have been currently allocated with?

 

[Ockie]

the other thing is how can one use the same MHZ for vodacom and mtn ? does it not clash

No...remember....the band is just called 1800 for example...but it stretches from lets say 17950 - 18950 or something like that. Then...that is devided into blocks... so it would look something like this. Now..this litterally is pulled out of me bum...so it is not accurate at all...but just to give a idea roughly of how it kind of works

MTN - 17950 - 18100
Voda - 18150 - 18300
Cell C - 18400 - 18600
8ta - 18700 - 18900

Something like that. So each operator gets allocated a range or block i think some call it within that band. There is also some seperation to prevent interference also I think. Kind of like radio stations almost I guess.

 

[Ockie]

Thanks ockie, so you saying that most of the available spectrum (mhz) has already seen it apportioned to other industries and as such there is a shortage. Due to broadband explosion the carriers are bursting at their frequency seams, with what they have been currently allocated with?

mmmm well...there are loads of other bands of course. BUT....not all bands are suitable for GSM 3G and LTE use. I once posed the question in the Vodacom section why dont we see GSM deployed in bands as low as the Radio stations for example. The answer is that it is not suitable to GSM use and also..apparently your phone would need a massive filter that would make it impracticle to carry around. Something like that. So...even though there are many bands out there...only some are suitable for GSM network deployment. That is why the operators are droooling over the digital dividend.

 

[dj_jyno]

if u have edge coverage and your tower is upgraded to LTE u should have some signal?

If it's operating on the same frequency and your device's radio supports LTE, yes. If they go with 2600 MHz you might drop out of the coverage area, but with 800 MHz you will definitely be covered.

There is also some seperation to prevent interference also I think. Kind of like radio stations almost I guess.

Think it operates in the same way as wireless network channels (as a matter of fact I believe that's what the cellular operators call it as well). If you and your neighbour both have wireless access points on the 2.4 GHz frequency and channel 1, you will get massive interference. In order to minimize interference, you change your access point to channel 6 or 11.

The wireless card in your device will still scan all the available channels in the specified frequency, but will only start transmitting on the channel specified by the access point.

 

[DTBA]

No...remember....the band is just called 1800 for example...but it stretches from lets say 17950 - 18950 or something like that. Then...that is devided into blocks... so it would look something like this. Now..this litterally is pulled out of me bum...so it is not accurate at all...but just to give a idea roughly of how it kind of works

MTN - 17950 - 18100
Voda - 18150 - 18300
Cell C - 18400 - 18600
8ta - 18700 - 18900

Something like that. So each operator gets allocated a range or block i think some call it within that band. There is also some seperation to prevent interference also I think. Kind of like radio stations almost I guess.

Ahh now I understand thanks man... this is stuff we never knew and helps to explain a lot.

 

[DTBA]

If it's operating on the same frequency and your device's radio supports LTE, yes. If they go with 2600 MHz you might drop out of the coverage area, but with 800 MHz you will definitely be covered.

THIS^


I really hope so ATM our tower has a max 9Km radius on the map on 3g . sucks

 

[CAPS LOCK]

mmmm well...there are loads of other bands of course. BUT....not all bands are suitable for GSM 3G and LTE use. I once posed the question in the Vodacom section why dont we see GSM deployed in bands as low as the Radio stations for example. The answer is that it is not suitable to GSM use and also..apparently your phone would need a massive filter that would make it impracticle to carry around. Something like that. So...even though there are many bands out there...only some are suitable for GSM network deployment. That is why the operators are droooling over the digital dividend.

Shot for you input, makes sense now.

 

[Randux]

An LTE tower with a speed of 60mbps (Vodacom) and a load of 1000 users would give each user what speed(s)?

 

[Randux]

Something I've always wondered about is spectrum/bands. What is that really? Who deploys it or is it naturally there in the air? I mean why can't my phone just communicate with a tower then a tower communicates with the network etc without these specialised bands? #Confused. Btw I hope I'm making sense

 

[Ockie]

Something I've always wondered about is spectrum/bands. What is that really? Who deploys it or is it naturally there in the air? I mean why can't my phone just communicate with a tower then a tower communicates with the network etc without these specialised bands? #Confused. Btw I hope I'm making sense

It is a natural resource really. Spectrum and its bands stretches from visible light for example all they way up to X-Rays and gamma rays etc. When it comes to commercial bands like the ones we use for Radio, TV and Cellular Networks...each country has a body that governs who may use it and what frequency you may operate on. This needs to be regulated to prevent one provider interfering with another.

This is the kind of thing that we went into @ physics class in highschool if I remember correctly. I also remember I completely sucked at it and switched subjects very soon after lol

 

[Ockie]

An LTE tower with a speed of 60mbps (Vodacom) and a load of 1000 users would give each user what speed(s)?

mmm I think 1000 users per tower would be a bit high I think? Remember...the coverage of a tower in a urban setting is normally not al that far.

In practice, cell sites are grouped in areas of high population density, with the most potential users. Cell phone traffic through a single cell mast is limited by the mast's capacity; there is a finite number of calls or data traffic that a mast can handle at once. This limitation is another factor affecting the spacing of cell mast sites. In suburban areas, masts are commonly spaced 1–2 miles (2–3 km) apart and in dense urban areas, masts may be as close as ¼-½ mile (400–800 m) apart. Cell masts always reserve part of their available bandwidth for emergency calls

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_site

 

[Randux]

mmm I think 1000 users per tower would be a bit high I think? Remember...the coverage of a tower in a urban setting is normally not al that far.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_site

That I have an idea of, I posed the question to see the capabilities of LTE...