English Prelim

[PostmanPot]

Nice one Deb

 

[Bageloo]

Can anyone please, please, please, point out the propaganda in the article?
Please point out the politically/racially offensive parts in the article.

 

[Debbie]

By including a piece written about the question of race and especially saying that a colour blind society is 'neither achievable, not desirable' is colouring the whole issue (if you'll excuse the blatant use of the word colour here!) and ensuring that the pupil cannot cast an unbiased eye over the piece as a whole.

Already many matrics will be looking towards the future, how AA, BEE and all that other nonsense will negatively effect their careers and now at the time they need to focus most on their studies they are confronted with yet more propaganda that reinforces this.

Lets not forget that while the majority of readers of this forum are adults and able to think for ourselves and not bow to peer pressure, for school kids these things are a very real shaping force in their lives. If you have a child spending it's school career constantly being told that the white man is the source of all evil and that it is almost expected that the white child should be ashamed of their own heritage then you will end up with a generation of people with a guilt complex second to none.

Well-written post schitz011, I agree.

Very good point. I grew up in Natal and there was great detail in history about Zulu culture, including the construction and layout of Kraals, how the warriors grouped and attacked (remember it being highlited as efficient too). We even attended Zulu lessons at one stage. I doubt anyone has exam papers from when they were kids - I mean we ritualisticly burnt ours after exams!!

I too had most of my schooling in Natal-
- I was never taught a thing about the Great Trek
- I had Zulu lessons from std 4 - std 8
- We were taught about the Zulu/British battles, visited the Natal battlefields on school tour (Isandlawana; etc... went to "Zululand" on tour)
- Shaka and his warriors were presented as heroes with a supreme military/strategy intelligence
- Stuff Jan v Riebeck- Vasco Da Gama, Dick King and "Shaka Zulu" were 'die manne' in Natal
- There was an extreme bias against anything Afrikaner.... Afrikaners were just these idiots who sort of ran the country and forced us to learn that dreaded language (sorry but that's what I remember being taught)
- When I was in highschool in Natal I would never have dated an Afrikaans guy, never....the social stigma was too great

Agh they were not taught about this it was just an article that was used!!
None of the questions were about who did what when.

Its a comprehension they give a story (fiction/non fiction) you answer the question.

Am I missing something?

JK8 it is unfair to expect kids who are steaming at the collar to write an exam in this state. This is by no means a neutral 'comprehension'. It's akin to giving for 'comprehension' an opinion piece by Steve Hofmeyer (who writes very well and persuasively on issues of Afrikaner culture, identity, and place in the new SA)... although he writes well and tackles some tough concepts, to include an opinion piece by him in a provincial exam would be inappropriate.

This is a school English exam for pete's sake- not a postgraduate seminar on the South African identity from the contemporary black intelligentsia. You should see how the topics (as in the comprehension) cause heated debates at all levels at uni- tears are not uncommon. These are topics that should be discussed in our society- but not in a highschool English paper.

Another reason why this is an inappropriate piece for a matric comprehension is because the issues brought up are beyond the comprehension of most people, perhaps all people, including the people who mark the papers... and let alone highschoolers. The issues here are not only emotive but also highly philosophical. Worldwide, philosophers and political theorists are struggling for consensus on group identity and race issues- this is a very hot topic internationally in social science academia. Without anything near a broad consensus in the current literature, and with very polarised views competing for legitimacy, there is no (and cannot be) a correct 'model answer' for comprehension questions on such pieces. The markers (like everyone else) essentially lack an appropriate level of comprehension of the issues themselves- thus in marking a paper they compare answers given with their own emotionally charged 'model answer' (their own view, which they believe to be 'correct' or 'almost correct'....because no-one holds a viewthat they don't believe in!). A comprehension on these matters thus becomes an opinion-comparing exercise where the student's emotionally-informed opinions are rated against the marker's emotionally-informed personal opinions. It's not fair to politicise an English exam in this manner. Would you write your true opinion in a comprehension if you knew it was likely that your opinion would go against or even anger your marker?

A further issue here are the psychological effects. Papers that contain psychological anger cues like "blah blah blah if you are white you blah blah blah are responsible..." are just 'not on'.

 

[Bageloo]

This is a school English exam for pete's sake- not a postgraduate seminar on the South African identity from the contemporary black intelligentsia. You should see how the topics (as in the comprehension) cause heated debates at all levels at uni- tears are not uncommon. These are topics that should be discussed in our society- but not in a highschool English paper.

That's what good education is supposed to be. It's supposed to expose pupils to real life issues, cause debate, raise social conciousness, and discuss controversies.

Another reason why this is an inappropriate piece for a matric comprehension is because the issues brought up are beyond the comprehension of most people, perhaps all people, including the people who mark the papers... and let alone highschoolers. The issues here are not only emotive but also highly philosophical. Worldwide, philosophers and political theorists are struggling for consensus on group identity and race issues- this is a very hot topic internationally in social science academia. Without anything near a broad consensus in the current literature, and with very polarised views competing for legitimacy, there is no (and cannot be) a correct 'model answer' for comprehension questions on such pieces. The markers (like everyone else) essentially lack an appropriate level of comprehension of the issues themselves- thus in marking a paper they compare answers given with their own emotionally charged 'model answer' (their own view, which they believe to be 'correct' or 'almost correct'....because no-one holds a viewthat they don't believe in!). A comprehension on these matters thus becomes an opinion-comparing exercise where the student's emotionally-informed opinions are rated against the marker's emotionally-informed personal opinions. It's not fair to politicise an English exam in this manner. Would you write your true opinion in a comprehension if you knew it was likely that your opinion would go against or even anger your marker?.

You should rather applaud the department for giving our pupils a headstart as far as philosophical and critical reasoning is concerned. Education is supposed to open up closed doors and this should not be confined to science only. I doubt you can derive value from reading up facts and regurgitating them as they are. Only the physical sciences should do that.

A further issue here are the psychological effects. Papers that contain psychological anger cues like "blah blah blah [colour=red]if you are white you[/colour] blah blah blah [colour=red]are responsible[/colour]..." are just 'not on'.

I did not see in that article where it said 'blah, blah blah if you are white'. I saw a very balanced assessment of the race issues in our country.

 

[JK8]

Well-written post schitz011, I agree.




This is a school English exam for pete's sake- not a postgraduate seminar on the South African identity from the contemporary black intelligentsia. You should see how the topics (as in the comprehension) cause heated debates at all levels at uni- tears are not uncommon. These are topics that should be discussed in our society- but not in a highschool English paper.

They are becoming adults they going to be or already are exposed to all this. They also part of our society.
They not babies they in matric they entering a new world they have to be strong minded. They cant get all worked up coz of one little article.

I would have prefered this article over Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

 

[rwenzori]

They not babies they in matric they entering a new world they have to be strong minded.

That's what good education is supposed to be. It's supposed to expose pupils to real life issues, cause debate, raise social conciousness, and discuss controversies.

And all this honourable stuff must take place in a Matric prelim exam?


Besides, I would have expected ANC education to rather desire the production of good little yes-men, to emulate their government ministers and parliamentarians. Independent thought and critical reasoning are DANGEROUS man!!!

 

[Debbie]

Bagaloo I've already answered all your objections, let's go again-

That's what good education is supposed to be. It's supposed to expose pupils to real life issues, cause debate, raise social conciousness, and discuss controversies.

You are quiet correct, I agree that education should do this. But let's try avoid the topics that cause fights and tears at university, and long-standing resentments between academics. The emotional charge behind this piece is not appropriate for a highschool English exam, especially without providing a well-argued piece from a contrasting tradition.

You should rather applaud the department for giving our pupils a headstart as far as philosophical and critical reasoning is concerned.

Good science tests what it is supposed to test. Likewise, a good exam tests what it is supposed to test. Imagine the kid steaming at the collar, boiling with rage- the biggest test for him becomes controlling his emotional reaction. All his energy is diverted to trying to put aside these gnawing feelings of anger, outrage, concern for his own future... **** dad might lose his job...safety in the country, crime, guns, the hijacking he experienced... .

Don't tell me that there weren't at least a thousand kids sitting there in that exam thinking thoughts like that, stirred up by this 'comprehension'. For many people, this exam was not testing language or comprehension skills, it was testing the student's ability to control his emotions.

Education is supposed to open up closed doors and this should not be confined to science only. I doubt you can derive value from reading up facts and regurgitating them as they are. Only the physical sciences should do that.

I agree that education is supposed to open up doors, cause learners to think critically, and so on. Like you I am also against simple fact regurgitation. Just because I reject this particular extremely emotive piece- on a topic that races have SLAUGHTERED other races over- doesn't mean I reject philosophical topics or topics requiring deep thinking altogether.

I did not see in that article where it said 'blah, blah blah if you are white'. I saw a very balanced assessment of the race issues in our country.

Psychological, mostly sub-conscious effects Bageloo.

 

[koffiejunkie]

The author of the piece argues that we should continue to define and distinguish ourselves by skin colour, and that skin colour is somehow more than skin deep.

This reasoning is exactly the kind of thinking that brought people to the point where they though apartheid is a pretty good idea.

I did not see in that article where it said 'blah, blah blah if you are white'. I saw a very balanced assessment of the race issues in our country.

From the article:

"4. Similarly, being white means you belong to a race group that was historically responsible for the racist history of S.A."

and then:

"Many whites are not comfortable acknowledging this part of their identity."

How can you possibly think this will not evoke some strong emotions? Of course many people are not "comfortable acknowledging this part of their identity" because it is not part of their identity. Especially younger people. Would it be fair to suggest that, because some black men believe raping a baby would cure them from aids, "child rapist" should is part of the black identity? Of course not!

You should rather applaud the department for giving our pupils a headstart as far as philosophical and critical reasoning is concerned.

Yeah, in a classroom with proper guidance from a teacher equipped and skilled in moderation. Not in matric final exam paper.

 

[general_koffi]

Gee wiz, I got 84& for the English language prelim. I can't even remember what was in it. Note that I do write IEB...

But then after doing history for matric, my BS writing skills are very well tuned by now...

 

[Bageloo]

The author of the piece argues that we should continue to define and distinguish ourselves by skin colour, and that skin colour is somehow more than skin deep.

This reasoning is exactly the kind of thinking that brought people to the point where they though apartheid is a pretty good idea.

The author gave ample reasons why he thinks colour is more than skin deep in our country. His reasons are also very true.

From the article:

"4. Similarly, being white means you belong to a race group that was historically responsible for the racist history of S.A."


and then:

"Many whites are not comfortable acknowledging this part of their identity."

Is this not true ?

How can you possibly think this will not evoke some strong emotions? Of course many people are not "comfortable acknowledging this part of their identity" because it is not part of their identity. Especially younger people. Would it be fair to suggest that, because some black men believe raping a baby would cure them from aids, "child rapist" should is part of the black identity? Of course not!
Yeah, in a classroom with proper guidance from a teacher equipped and skilled in moderation. Not in matric final exam paper.

Don't most white people feel exactly as he says, i.e uncomfortable with acknowledging that they are part of the race that was responsible for Apartheid?
This is exactly the same as me as a black person feeling uncomfortable about acknowledging that I am part of the race that is responsible for much corruption in gvt, little service delivery etc. I'm not part of the corruption, or incompetence but just by virtue of being black I get identified with gvt and all it's negative things. The same thing applies when I get a job, most white people assume I got it because I'm black. They assume I'm incompetent and corrupt. Can you see now how deep colour runs?

JK already mentioned that these are matric students who in a few months time will be leaving school for university or employment. Why do you want to shield them from reality? These are some of the things they witness everyday of their lives anyway.

 

[Slooth]

I for one didn't have any sway over apartheid. I don't agree with apartheid, question is do think I should be sorry about something?

 

[Debbie]

They are becoming adults they going to be or already are exposed to all this. They also part of our society.
They not babies they in matric they entering a new world they have to be strong minded. They cant get all worked up coz of one little article.

You propose that Matric students must demonstrate a level of restraint and composure that adults struggle to maintain? hello 'the holocaust', hello 'Armenia', hello 'Bosnia', hello 'Rwana'....!

I would have prefered this article over Snow White and the 7 dwarfs.

No one is suggesting that Snow White be the featured comprehension JK8. I'm just saying let's leave these topics- THAT HUMANS SLAUGHTER ONE ANOTHER OVER- out of the English Language and Comprehension tests we do on 17-year olds.

 

[rwenzori]

Don't most white people feel exactly as he says, i.e uncomfortable with acknowledging that they are part of the race that was responsible for Apartheid?

Not me.

 

[Bageloo]

I for one didn't have any sway over apartheid. I don't agree with apartheid, question is do think I should be sorry about something?

but didn't you derive some benefit from it?

 

[Slooth]

but didn't you derive some benefit from it?

Absolutely, but I've already mentioned I didn't agree with it and no sway in the matter. Are you saying you think those without a voting voice should feel guilty? Do you harbour hatred towards the pre-gen apartheid population?

 

[Bageloo]

You propose that Matric students must demonstrate a level of restraint and composure that adults struggle to maintain? hello 'the holocaust', hello 'Armenia', hello 'Bosnia', hello 'Rwana'....!



No one is suggesting that Snow White be the featured comprehension JK8. I'm just saying let's leave these topics- THAT HUMANS SLAUGHTER ONE ANOTHER OVER- out of the English Language and Comprehension tests we do on 17-year olds.

I disagree. English is a language study which does not exist in a vaccum. There is culture, and social context attached to every language study.
Why were we subjected to the likes of Macbeth, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, etc, if it wasn't for the themes that those plays carried ? Why shouldn't pupils study novels like 'Cry the Beloved Country', or 'Ah but your land is beautiful', 'Down Second Avenue' or 'Things Fall Apart'?
These are examples of some books that we either did at matric, the year before..or after matric.
There was one in particular "To sir with love" that had very racial undertones. Such writtings create an awareness that is lacking in growing children. The aim is to ensure that they come to terms with who they are and develop tolerance which stems from understanding of what the other races are about. Race should not be a taboo subject.

 

[Bageloo]

Absolutely, but I've already mentioned I didn't agree with it and no sway in the matter. Are you saying you think those without a voting voice should feel guilty? Do you harbour hatred towards the pre-gen apartheid population?

Do you think I should be apologetic about AA/BEE?
Do I have a sway on the issue? Do I derive benefit from it?
I don't harbour any hatred towards anyone or any race for that matter whether pre-gen or post gen apartheid population.
My point is that I agree with the author in that race issues are unvoidable. It doesn't help being touchy touchy about it. It happened and it screwed up our society but now we have to deal with it. Avoiding it is not dealing it.

 

[JK8]

I disagree. English is a language study which does not exist in a vaccum. There is culture, and social context attached to every language study.
Why were we subjected to the likes of Macbeth, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, etc, if it wasn't for the themes that those plays carried ? Why shouldn't pupils study novels like 'Cry the Beloved Country', or 'Ah but your land is beautiful', 'Down Second Avenue' or 'Things Fall Apart'?
These are examples of some books that we either did at matric, the year before..or after matric.
There was one in particular "To sir with love" that had very racial undertones. Such writtings create an awareness that is lacking in growing children. The aim is to ensure that they come to terms with who they are and develop tolerance which stems from understanding of what the other races are about. Race should not be a taboo subject.

Nicely said!

 

[Debbie]

I disagree. English is a language study which does not exist in a vaccum. There is culture, and social context attached to every language study.
Why were we subjected to the likes of Macbeth, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, etc, if it wasn't for the themes that those plays carried ? Why shouldn't pupils study novels like 'Cry the Beloved Country', or 'Ah but your land is beautiful', 'Down Second Avenue' or 'Things Fall Apart'?
These are examples of some books that we either did at matric, the year before..or after matric.
There was one in particular "To sir with love" that had very racial undertones. Such writtings create an awareness that is lacking in growing children. The aim is to ensure that they come to terms with who they are and develop tolerance which stems from understanding of what the other races are about. Race should not be a taboo subject.

I don't think race should be a taboo subject. I am against the presentation of one-sided opinions on racial topics.

If you want to give a one-sided piece as a topic for comprehension, don't mix it with a deeply emotional one.

This piece is hardly a 'Cry the Beloved Country'- that at least was almost balanced.

 

[rwenzori]

I disagree. English is a language study which does not exist in a vaccum. There is culture, and social context attached to every language study.
Why were we subjected to the likes of Macbeth, Othello, Romeo and Juliet, etc, if it wasn't for the themes that those plays carried ? Why shouldn't pupils study novels like 'Cry the Beloved Country', or 'Ah but your land is beautiful', 'Down Second Avenue' or 'Things Fall Apart'?
These are examples of some books that we either did at matric, the year before..or after matric.
There was one in particular "To sir with love" that had very racial undertones. Such writtings create an awareness that is lacking in growing children. The aim is to ensure that they come to terms with who they are and develop tolerance which stems from understanding of what the other races are about. Race should not be a taboo subject.

Literature is not a sub-discipline of politics or sociology. Great books teach you of your humanity even if you have no concept of their "context". Prescribing supposed "relevant" books is a ploy to try to get some kind of reaction out of the mindless bored hordes infesting our classrooms blowing snotballs at the kid in front. Or to foist propaganda on them, to teach them "correct" thinking. The poem is the poem, the novel is the novel, the play is the play.