ETFs in S.A

i see fees on etfsa are 0.7% for 0-500k, while on easyequities its 0.25%. Its not huge on either side, but nearly 3x different between the 2.

Is there a catch that I am not seeing on EasyEquities?
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
Pretty much the same with Satrix, which is why I never bothered. Opened an FNB Share Saver account which required no paperwork at all since they already have all my details...
Click to expand...

Well - I signed up for the sharesaver as well as a test... and my account is now sitting @ 12k, and im leaving it to see what happens. I can say in the last 8mths, the growth is at about 2% which doesn't thrill me.. and the "unflexibility" of not being able to switch funds is not sitting well with me.. Feels like my hands are cuffed.

SO for now - im probably going to FICA on EasyEquities in the next week and take it for a spin... And leave my other ETFs with etfsa and let them run as per normal...
 
fruitbat said:
i see fees on etfsa are 0.7% for 0-500k, while on easyequities its 0.25%. Its not huge on either side, but nearly 3x different between the 2.

Is there a catch that I am not seeing on EasyEquities?
Click to expand...

No, the only real "catch" is that EE keeps your holdings under your name in a ring fenced company instead of a BDA account at the JSE. Most probably the reason why they can be cheaper and require less paperwork.
 
fruitbat said:
Well - I signed up for the sharesaver as well as a test... and my account is now sitting @ 12k, and im leaving it to see what happens. I can say in the last 8mths, the growth is at about 2% which doesn't thrill me.. and the "unflexibility" of not being able to switch funds is not sitting well with me.. Feels like my hands are cuffed.
Click to expand...

I have a ShareSaver account as well and the only issues I have with it is that it is too lopsided towards the Top40. Would've liked it to have a 1:1 value ratio and not share ratio between the Top40 and MidCap. Regardless, it works. I started mine the month they introduced it so I've had mine for quite a while - monthly debit orders and a couple of lump sums later I have a sizable amount in it. At the beginning of the year I was 16% up and I'm now down to 8% so we are talking 1000's "lost" here.

Point is - this is long term. You cannot gauge the performance of the market or an ETF over 2 months because you are going to get a very skewed view of things. Not that past performance is any real indicator, but this is what you are seeing looking at 3 months:

3month.jpg

vs. what you would see if you look at the last decade or so:

alltime.jpg

0.71% vs 492.3% growth, or to normalise it: 0.24% vs 4.1% avg monthly growth
 
fruitbat said:
i see fees on etfsa are 0.7% for 0-500k, while on easyequities its 0.25%. Its not huge on either side, but nearly 3x different between the 2.

Is there a catch that I am not seeing on EasyEquities?
Click to expand...

You are not comparing apples with apples.

ADMINISTRATION FEES
ETFSA: 0.7% p.a. of investment value
EE: zero

TRANSACTION FEES
ETFSA:
- Debit order fee: R3,50
- Broker commission: 0.10% + JSE/Strate and Investor Protection fees (plus VAT) will be charged.
EE:
- Broker commission: 0.25% + VAT
- Settlement and Administration: 0.075% of value traded + VAT
- Investor Protection Levy (IPL): 0.0002% of value traded + VAT
- Total: 0.37% of value traded (incl VAT)

In other words, the ETFSA transaction fees are a bit cheaper than EE, but with EE you do not pay any annual administration fees.
 
gjm said:
You are not comparing apples with apples.

ADMINISTRATION FEES
ETFSA: 0.7% p.a. of investment value
EE: zero

TRANSACTION FEES
ETFSA:
- Debit order fee: R3,50
- Broker commission: 0.10% + JSE/Strate and Investor Protection fees (plus VAT) will be charged.
EE:
- Broker commission: 0.25% + VAT
- Settlement and Administration: 0.075% of value traded + VAT
- Investor Protection Levy (IPL): 0.0002% of value traded + VAT
- Total: 0.37% of value traded (incl VAT)

In other words, the ETFSA transaction fees are a bit cheaper than EE, but with EE you do not pay any annual administration fees.
Click to expand...

Thank you :-) i just did a quick squiz between meetings... Appreciate the "apple vs apple" comparison.
 
Hamster said:
No, the only real "catch" is that EE keeps your holdings under your name in a ring fenced company instead of a BDA account at the JSE. Most probably the reason why they can be cheaper and require less paperwork.
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Not quite, the full shares are in your account, it's the partial shares which are in the ring fenced company. Here's their FAQ on it
How are my assets protected?

EasyEquities has to comply with certain regulations regarding the requirement to have adequate net capital and asset protection. GT247.com segregates your securities holdings and cash in your account, meaning it keeps your assets separate from the company's own assets. In addition, EasyEquities will hold all client assets in First World Trader Nominees (Proprietary) Limited, which is a ring fenced, private, limited liability company with registration number 2013/091397/07, registered in accordance with the company laws of South Africa and approved as a nominee company to hold assets in its name on behalf of clients by the FSB. When you purchase Whole Securities, you become the beneficial (true) owner of all those Whole Securities, which will be held by FWT Nominees on your behalf. FWT will ensure that you are reflected as the beneficial owner of your Whole Securities in our books of account.
Click to expand...
 
patrick said:
Not quite, the full shares are in your account, it's the partial shares which are in the ring fenced company. Here's their FAQ on it
Click to expand...

you become the beneficial (true) owner of all those Whole Securities, which will be held by FWT Nominees on your behalf.
Click to expand...

Maybe we are missing each other, but your full shares are not held in a BDA account at the JSE but in an account with FTW. In your name but not with the JSE.
 
Hamster said:
Maybe we are missing each other, but your full shares are not held in a BDA account at the JSE but in an account with FTW. In your name but not with the JSE.
Click to expand...

Yes, we were missing each other. How big a risk do you think that is?
 
patrick said:
Yes, we were missing each other. How big a risk do you think that is?
Click to expand...
They say it is ring fenced. They are a approved y the FSB. FTW has been in business for a good couple of years, so in theory minimum to no risk.

Do I take advantage of their rates for my TFSA and some other play money - yes.

Will I move the bulk of investments away from FNB and Stanlib - probably not. The human in me need EasyEquities to first prove itself over another 3 to 4 years. Completely irrational fear if all evidence is considered
 
Hamster said:
They say it is ring fenced. They are a approved y the FSB. FTW has been in business for a good couple of years, so in theory minimum to no risk.

Do I take advantage of their rates for my TFSA and some other play money - yes.

Will I move the bulk of investments away from FNB and Stanlib - probably not. The human in me need EasyEquities to first prove itself over another 3 to 4 years. Completely irrational fear if all evidence is considered
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat actually. My TFSA is with EE, but when I said I was moving from my broker to EE, they dropped the annual fee and the percentage fee to 0.2%. Can't complain about that :)

When I stop working and don't have enough to buy to hit the minimum fee I'll start buying at EE and just leave the rest with my current broker.
 
Thanks you guys for introducing me to EE - once you get all the FICA crap out of the way...you are set to go. I pump money in via my Capitec Debit MasterCard...At the moment, I am buying mostly "penny shares", that have plenty of potential, but will not break the bank if they do not perform. As for the bigger boys, one or two shares every month, across sectors...playing the long game...5-10 years...but yet again, platform is easypeasy to use.
 
Hey - how long does it typically take them to acknowledge an EFT?

I did FNB to FNB? Anyone care to share experiences?

Also - on the ebucks train, would this be classified as an online transaction as it goes through mygate payment gateway? 5 or 6% is better than the txn fee...

EDIT: 7minutes :-)
 
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patrick said:
Eish, big iron balls there.

Most people lose in the penny shares...
Click to expand...

+1

I bought penny shares once. The spreads were astronomical but they went up nicely when I bought but then they dropped by the same amount when I sold. All in all I was left covering costs. Never again.
 
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