Evolution In Action

[cyghost]

If we ARE apes then why are there still apes around?

You get the idea of different species don't you? Surely you must, after all, our best friends, dogs, come in various shapes and sizes and yet, somehow, are still all dogs.

There are soo many unanswered questions...

Indeed. But not the ones you are asking. They have been adequately answered. And despite you bowing out, we will look for and find answers to the real unanswered questions that remains.

/leaves debate...

You are the weakest link, good bye.

 

[w1z4rd]

If we ARE apes then why are there still apes around?

There are soo many unanswered questions...

/leaves debate...

Is the common ancestor to the human and the rest of the primate family around today? Didnt know!

Seriously though dude.. they dont go as a population "oh lets all evolve today together".

Let me make this simple for you. Red ninjas evolve on the planet. One of the Red ninjas has a green ninja baby. This green ninja baby was born in a forest. It has babies.. most of its babies are green, and cause they live in a forest they do better than the red Ninjas.. who have found a perfect home on Ayers Rock.

Now even though there are green ninjas... Its only a part of that population thats changed. The rest of the red ninjas are still happily living as well. One species doesnt have to die out to make room for a new one. Though this does happen a lot.

 

[Phronesis]

If you kept it on real science I may or may not have.

Did you even read how the immune system functions? Probably not.
Here, try discussing science:

How does the immune system purposefully induce mutations and how does the system control the error-repair pathway and the subsequent recruitment of various low vs high-fidelity polymerases being employed after induction of the mutation?

You 3 are all the same. Pretend to know what science is yet never discuss anything relevant. Is this going to change? Only you can decide.

 

[cyghost]

blah blah blah you don't want to discuss anything blah blah blah

I have proven I am willing to discuss things. I am still here.


Ask the following question honestly and straightforwardly:

Is teleology science?

Yes or No.

Furthermore when my heart beats, it pumps blood purposely through my veins in order to carry oxygen to various cells. My heart's purpose is to keep me alive. Can we stop being stupid about this now?

The immune systems does its job in wondrous ways. What of it? If we were just discussing the immune system, I'd probably have nothing to say and just find it interesting or not as the case may be. Clearly we are not.

your using of words like "teleology" and "front loaded" is what gets you my scorn here. And deservedly so.

If you were able to learn from past mistakes, we won't be having this discussion. Stop letting your metaphysics dictate your science. It only makes for bad science.

 

[Phronesis]

blah blah blah you don't want to discuss anything blah blah blah

I have proven I am willing to discuss things. I am still here.

Actually, you have just proven you are still here and NOT discussing anything. Here, last chance, it is relevant to you having any gripes.

How does the immune system purposefully induce mutations and how does the system control the error-repair pathway and the subsequent recruitment of various low vs high-fidelity polymerases being employed after induction of the mutation?

If you don't want to discuss this, I really don't see any reason for your posts here.

 

[cyghost]

last chance for you:

Is teleology science?

 

[alloytoo]

Really, and in the process choke in your own smoke of confusion. Better have a good look at yourself .
Since you are always so pretentious to know a lot about how science works, why not stay on topic here and discuss your knowledge that is relevant to the thread.

How does the immune system purposefully induce mutations and how does the system control the error-repair pathway and the subsequent recruitment of various low vs high-fidelity polymerases being employed after induction of the mutation?

Are you going to actually contribute or give your understanding of immune function or at least make the effort to learn about it? Of course not, that is your pretentious nature alloytubes... More smoke to come from you? I think I am not the only one that is getting irritated by your, cyggiepop and w1zzy's shenani gans. Always so quick to espouse the virtues of science but rarely (if ever) show that you actually have any understanding.

Ah! A rant embossed with personal insults.

Are they conciously produced, purposefully, know we're on the right track when they emerge.

 

[alloytoo]

If we ARE apes then why are there still apes around?

There are soo many unanswered questions...

/leaves debate...

One might ask if Chimps are apes why are we still around?

 

[alloytoo]

How does the immune system purposefully induce mutations and how does the system control the error-repair pathway and the subsequent recruitment of various low vs high-fidelity polymerases being employed after induction of the mutation?

The immune system purposefully induces mutations because that is what it has evolved to do.

are there immune systems that don't purposefully induce mutation?

 

[Phronesis]

last chance for you:

Is teleology science?

Answered, you turn bubba.

The immune system purposefully induces mutations because that is what it has evolved to do.

are there immune systems that don't purposefully induce mutation?

Wow, evolution has a plan now? You seem to go for the notion that evolution meant to have certain outcomes, because hey, evolution is a doer? I am sorry, but where does this agency come from? Are you now hinting at the teleological nature of evolution?

 

[cyghost]

hey bubba, yes or no? It's not that difficult

try it, no strings attached, no elaborations, no excuses or apologetics

yes or no bubba?

 

[Phronesis]

Bubba, read, I don't disagree that teleology is not science.

But here is a sentence that you may not misrepresent:
Teleology and materialism are not science. Science relies on methodological naturalism. This however does not exclude them from scientific discussions.

Your turn... Oh wait, you are not here to discuss science like usual, just irritating.

 

[cyghost]

Teleology and materialism are not science. Science relies on methodological naturalism. This however does not exclude them from scientific discussions.

If the purpose is to discuss science (and what else is this sub forum for?) then yes it does.

if you want to discuss the philosophical implications, well guess where that should be discussed?

You have yet to provide evidence for teleology (other than arguments from ignorance) If you had any, it would be scientific.

gettit bubba? still have problems with it?

 

[Phronesis]

If the purpose is to discuss science (and what else is this sub forum for?) then yes it does.

ROFL, then do, don't just pretend you know a little about science, show that you do. Still waiting...

 

[cyghost]

I have explained this haven't I? I am sure I have. /shakes head

 

[Phronesis]

I have explained this haven't I? I am sure I have. /shakes head

Lol, ok fine. Try discussing this.

How does the immune system purposefully induce mutations and how does the system control the error-repair pathway and the subsequent recruitment of various low vs high-fidelity polymerases being employed after induction of the mutation?

Let's talk mechanisms, plain old materialistic mechanisms and how they achieve their goal.

 

[cyghost]

go for it, I am all ears

 

[Phronesis]

go for it, I am all ears

And the evasion continues. You missed it in post #2. I asked you to discuss... nothing.

 

[cyghost]

Post 2 mentions "teleological evolution" and I object to those terms here. I thought you got it?

 

[Phronesis]

Post 2 mentions "teleological evolution" and I object to those terms here. I thought you got it?

I guess science in general puts you off then. Scientific peer-reviewed articles like this must put you off science for life?
Adaptive landscapes and emergent phenotypes: why do cancers have high glycolysis?

Investigating the causes of increased aerobic glycolysis in tumors (Warburg Effect) has gone in and out of fashion many times since it was first described almost a century ago. The field is currently in ascendance due to two factors. Over a million FDG-PET studies have unequivocally identified increased glucose uptake as a hallmark of metastatic cancer in humans. These observations, combined with new molecular insights with HIF-1alpha and c-myc, have rekindled an interest in this important phenotype. A preponderance of work has been focused on the molecular mechanisms underlying this effect, with the expectation that a mechanistic understanding may lead to novel therapeutic approaches. There is also an implicit assumption that a mechanistic understanding, although fundamentally reductionist, will nonetheless lead to a more profound teleological understanding of the need for altered metabolism in invasive cancers. In this communication, we describe an alternative approach that begins with teleology; i.e. adaptive landscapes and selection pressures that promote emergence of aerobic glycolysis during the somatic evolution of invasive cancer. Mathematical models and empirical observations are used to define the adaptive advantage of aerobic glycolysis that would explain its remarkable prevalence in human cancers. These studies have led to the hypothesis that increased consumption of glucose in metastatic lesions is not used for substantial energy production via Embden-Meyerhoff glycolysis, but rather for production of acid, which gives the cancer cells a competitive advantage for invasion. Alternative hypotheses, wherein the glucose is used for generation of reducing equivalents (NADPH) or anabolic precursors (ribose) are also discussed.

Your inability to discuss anything science-related is glaringly obvious... Yet you feel the need to extol the virtues of science.