Haldex
Expert Member
Seemed like a one race wonder to me...
Actually it is a one race wonder, well until another win.
What about Rosberg? One race wonder?
Some people type such cr@p sometimes...
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F1 2012 thread
- Thread starter killadoob
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Seemed like a one race wonder to me...
Actually it is a one race wonder, well until another win.
What about Rosberg? One race wonder?
Some people type such cr@p sometimes...
JerryMungo
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My honest OPINION on the last race for Mclaren is....
Hamilton's car was clearly tuned down and the rev limiter was kicking in early, preventing him from hitting top speeds down the straights and eliminating alot of the DRS advantage. Coulthard commented that he assumed it was deliberate to assist him in Quali (car setup for quali, not race pace).
I think it was setup for Hamilton's aggressive driving style - to force the car to back off when it hits top revs - and save tyres. So Hamilton was able to finish the race on two sets of tyres (pretty impressive) simply because the car was hitting the rev limiter earlier. I dont think the tyre saving was down to Hamilton as much as the under powered macca. It would have been a good strategy had he kept pole I think. Perhaps this is why Button (who is normally good on tyres) struggled - he needs the full power of the engine to get a result with his driving style.
My 5c worth.
One thing everyone agrees on this year is the way those Pirellis fall off the edge without warning after very little abuse. That makes driving VERY difficult for aggressive drivers. On the positive side, having a car that's hooked up nicely with loads of downforce, allowing you to blindly floor it while being glued to the track (Red bull 2010, 2011, Brawn 2009), is NOT going to win you the championship - it could actually hurt.
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Haldex
Expert Member
Thats due to his or his teams arrogance, they expected to lead from pole, which we all know Hamilton cant do.
Had he lead from pole he didnt need DRS, hence his car was setup incorrectly not "tuned down". Btw he always hits the limiter with DRS, he prefers the car like that, hence race day, he stuffs up and puts the rest of the team on pressure hence the "bad luck"
Naks
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Kimi must be wondering if he made the right choice going to Lotus instead of going to Williams
I really really doubt that :-D
thestaggy
Honorary Master
While the Williams had legitimate race-winning pace throughout the race weekend, the Lotus has been a consistently fast car. Kimi's had two podiums in a row and tyre wear cost him another podium in China, when he became the fastest man to go from 2nd to 14th place.
Williams are improved but there isn't enough evidence to say they will be consistently fast. Maldonado, a street circuit specialist, will probably have a solid run in Monaco but Lotus still looks to be quite possibly the most consistent car on the grid at the moment. They're gonna win a race soon.
thestaggy
Honorary Master
Depends on what you determine to be the ''wonder''? The win or a strong run? That Williams is a very handy car. There's a fine line between Mercedes, Sauber & Williams at the moment and all have shown race-winning pace - Sauber just missing out at Malaysia.
The nature of Maldonado's weekend clearly indicated the presence of ability though. He was fastest in Quali 2 and inherited pole after being 2nd fastest in Quali 3. He held his own in the race and beat Alonso for pace on the undercut. Next up is Monaco. Maldonado is a bit of a street specialist and I think he'll have another strong run and I hope he does. He qualified 8th there last season in an underpowered dog of a car and was running 6th and hunting Kobayashi down for 5th before Hamilton tried a banzai move at Sainte Devote and punted him off.
Some people need reminding...
Extra obstacles for Lewis:
Aus: McLaren team calling Hamilton in too late after his tires had "fallen off the cliff" costing him massive time (first pit stop).
Safety car screwing him over costing him a place to Vettel cause Hamilton to finish in 3rd.
Mal: First pit stop: Rear jack costing Hamilton massive time.
2nd pit stop: Team taking very long to remove a piece of debris from front left suspension.
Chn: 5 place grid drop due to gear box failure
Bah: 1st pit stop problem costing him massive time
2nd pit stop problem costing him massive time
Spain: 23 place grid penalty due to team fuelling error
2nd pit stop problem
Extra obstacles for Lewis:
Aus: McLaren team calling Hamilton in too late after his tires had "fallen off the cliff" costing him massive time (first pit stop).
Safety car screwing him over costing him a place to Vettel cause Hamilton to finish in 3rd.
Mal: First pit stop: Rear jack costing Hamilton massive time.
2nd pit stop: Team taking very long to remove a piece of debris from front left suspension.
Chn: 5 place grid drop due to gear box failure
Bah: 1st pit stop problem costing him massive time
2nd pit stop problem costing him massive time
Spain: 23 place grid penalty due to team fuelling error
2nd pit stop problem
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Haldex
Expert Member
Not knocking Maldonado at all, im happy that he won after only 24 GP races huge hurdle for him, some drivers race for years with no win.
Thats just it, Williams have no real pace the first few races, Mercedes, Sauber yes, Lotus yes, I would rate Force India more of a contender than Williams before last weekends race.
Maldonado might be a specialist, hope he proves it to everyone, but dont think the big teams and their drivers are not as good or better, street circuits need specialised setups and driver aids.
I will be very surprised if a minnow team takes pole or pops up in the top 3. AND with that being said, the tyre issues are iratating me, qualifying is not as important as it used to be, saving tyres has become more important than qualifying to the teams, I also only thin 5 finishing in Q3 qualifying. Everyone wants to win at Monaco, Red Bull will take it.
Haldex
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JerryMungo
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Look again... 7 of Hamilton's 16 race wins were from pole, 12 from the front row. Breathe deep. He has won from the front row as well as further back. Compare that to 21 of 22 wins from the front row for Seb (for example). He has only won once from other than the front row (and that was from the second row - 3rd place).
killadoob
Honorary Master
But i thought winning from the front was so easy but hamilton cannot do it, so is it really easy? 7 out 16 is low, wow here people are telling me winning from pole is easy
. Basically it's better for hamilton not to get pole because he has a small chance of winning and if seb gets pole put your house on him winning 
Just goes to show some drivers can lead and others can't, of course there is no talent in winning from the front anyone can do it even the talented hamilton, o wait......
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JerryMungo
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But i thought winning from the front was so easy but hamilton cannot do it, so is it really easy? 7 out 16 is low, wow here people are telling me winning from pole is easy
Just goes to show some drivers can lead and others can't, of course there is no talent in winning from the front anyone can do it even the talented hamilton, o wait......
Killa, nearly 40% of all grand prix wins have been from pole, and if you look at number of wins from each position down to 10, the number goes down proportionally. Naturally it's easier to win from the front. If you take wins from the front row, it's a huge percentage. Vettel has only converted 53% of his poles to wins vs 43% by Hamilton, so in that respect they aren't too different. Winning from further down the grid is considerably more difficult. Something Hamilton has been better at.
Alonso has the best pole to win conversion of all time at 65%. Alonso and Raikkonen are the only two drivers to have converted 100% poles to podiums.
The only glaring statistic to point out is that Vettel is at the top of the list with % wins from pole. I don't think he can brag too much about that. He is at the bottom of the list when you consider % wins not starting from pole. Being a young driver, two years in the fastest car on the grid helped him bolster his stats considerably. % wins from starts at 25% - shared with Senna and Prost. Ahead of them are Clark, Ascari, Schumacher and Fangio.
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Aasvoël
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Killa, nearly 40% of all grand prix wins have been from pole, and if you look at number of wins from each position down to 10, the number goes down proportionally. Naturally it's easier to win from the front. If you take wins from the front row, it's a huge percentage. Vettel has only converted 53% of his poles to wins vs 43% by Hamilton, so in that respect they aren't too different. Winning from further down the grid is considerably more difficult. Something Hamilton has been better at.
Alonso has the best pole to win conversion of all time at 65%. Alonso and Raikkonen are the only two drivers to have converted 100% poles to podiums.
The only glaring statistic to point out is that Vettel is at the top of the list with % wins from pole. I don't think he can brag too much about that. He is at the bottom of the list when you consider % wins not starting from pole. Being a young driver, two years in the fastest car on the grid helped him bolster his stats considerably. % wins from starts at 25% - shared with Senna and Prost. Ahead of them are Clark, Ascari, Schumacher and Fangio.
Rating drivers on stats like that is bias. The cars them selves also have a part to play. Don't think any one can deny that the Red-Bull is fast in clean air, that's why the did so well last year. Behind another car though they struggle. Their fast in corner and slow on the straights, a trait of how the car was designed, but still making overtaking hard as you cant over take in most corners, either over take into the corner, need straight line speed, or get better drive out of the corner, but then still hampered by straight line speed. Webber last year had a shock, over one lap they were close, but Webber got stuck in traffic and couldn't do anything. In clean air he had quite a number of fastest laps. Also what's to say that the drivers don't use their cars to their max in quali, last year Hamilton had a few blistering qualifying laps then when it really counted he made small errors costing him. In that sense he didn't put the car where it belonged but come race day over 50 odd laps with a faster car he can over take slower cars ect.
Hell look at schumi last year, he had the most in race overtakes purely because he lost his front wing so many times and had to retake positions from slower cars.
What I'm getting at is that you cant rate drivers on stats, there are more variables involved.
On to Pastors win, one hit wonder IMO. He hasn't really shown any hint of being a top driver. Williams was a fast car trough out the weekend, and he did do well getting that victory, but average driver at best he didn't have much on good old Barrichello
killadoob
Honorary Master
Please bare in mind vettel had a two seasons in a crap car, hamilton has never been in that position. The stats are warped. Hamilton strolled into f1 in a championship winning car. He didn't sit in a torro rosso waiting for the big move.
You can perhaps only compare drivers if they both started at the bottom something hamilton was very lucky to avoid where as vettel was unable to step into a winning car but he did manage a win in it i think in the rain, he got pole and won. I see your point though but still hamilton started career in a great car and only 21 poles, vettel spent two seasons at torro rosso and has 30.
Pastor is an exceptional driver and i don't think it was a one off not after i watch that documentary where they looked so excited about their new front wing.
Williams prior to the spanish race:
It is also difficult to set the car up here because there are high, medium and slow speed corners. We have been working hard since the last race and hopefully the updates we bring will lead to some good points.”
You can perhaps only compare drivers if they both started at the bottom something hamilton was very lucky to avoid where as vettel was unable to step into a winning car but he did manage a win in it i think in the rain, he got pole and won. I see your point though but still hamilton started career in a great car and only 21 poles, vettel spent two seasons at torro rosso and has 30.
Pastor is an exceptional driver and i don't think it was a one off not after i watch that documentary where they looked so excited about their new front wing.
Williams prior to the spanish race:
It is also difficult to set the car up here because there are high, medium and slow speed corners. We have been working hard since the last race and hopefully the updates we bring will lead to some good points.”
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thestaggy
Honorary Master
I disagree. They're definitely quicker than Force India. Maldonado also crashed out of 6th place in Australia, 8 points that would have put them on 26 to Force India's 18 before Spain. He was also ahead of both Saubers, a Lotus, both Force Indias and quicker than Alonso at the time. In Malaysia Senna finished ahead of both Force India's, a Mercedes and a Sauber and Maldonado retired with engine problems while tenth, ahead of a Mercedes. In China both Williamses finished ahead of the Force India's, both Saubers & Alonso. In Bahrain they struggled and in Spain, well, we saw what happened there. That car is definitely up there with the Saubers & Mercedes on race pace and is quicker than the Force Indias.
In terms of quali pace, they've qualified inside the top-10 twice, Sauber have done it 4 times with one double top-10 and Force India have done it twice.
That car is good.
thestaggy
Honorary Master
As mentioned, he put the Cosworth-powered car of last year 8th on the grid at Monaco and was running 6th, tracking Kobayashi for 5th when Hamilton took him out. In 4 starts at Monaco in GP2 he had 2 wins and a 2nd and 2011 it was the scene of his and Williams' best qualification performance on the season and would have resulted in a points haul that would have doubled their season total had he not been put out of the race. There's clearly ability there and that car is not half bad. There's no reason why - in a better car with probably the best engine in F1 - he can't qualify inside the top-10 again, or even better, and run competitively. Williams upgraded their front wing for Spain and believe they've found a real difference maker.
Time will tell though, but all round that is a good package of car and driver.
Haldex
Expert Member
I guess we shall see.
Monaco is a street track, almost impossible to overtake, accidents all over the place, easy for back markers to score points.
Will eat my words if Maldonado or Senna make the a podium spot.
Although Williams is improved I dont see it being regular podiums yet...