F1 2012 thread

And they clarified the overtaking rule that when another car is a significant portion alongside you need to leave enough space, Button didn't do that, forcing Vettel wide and off track. Had Button left him space this wouldn't have been an issue.
 
I agree, he can't say he didn't know where Button was - that's just too easy.

I just watched the incident and that is a pathetic excuse. There is no way he can argue that he didn't know where Button was. Even if he did, it doesn't change the fact that he gained a position by going off-track. Button had the inside racing line and regardless of how much track he used (it was a hairpin so not sure how this could be argued), he was in the right...
 
And they clarified the overtaking rule that when another car is a significant portion alongside you need to leave enough space, Button didn't do that, forcing Vettel wide and off track. Had Button left him space this wouldn't have been an issue.

Doesn't change the rule that you cannot gain a position going off-track...
 
@Ros - Need to lurk less on the British F1 forums. Vettel was along side Button, Vettel then took the safer option, look at the overtake again and you'd see in the end Button used the entire road and left Vettel no room, while Vettel was a significant portion next to Button. Compare that to Bahrain where your beloved Hamilton over took Rossberg off track while not even being next to him when Rossberg started his move to the right. Just butt hurt McLaren fans

Watch the video again, Button left room for Vettel but then only moved onto the curb after seeing Vettel leave the track. Button has more than enough experience in F1 racing to know what to do and how things work.

In Bahrain Rosberg was being unnecessarily aggressive, he didnt just push Hamilton off the track but also your beloved Alonso.
 
Amazed at Vettel thinking he could get away with his lies.

After the race you could clearly hear Button going up to Vettel and confronting him about the move and telling him how he is being investigated.

Then when Vettel gets interviewed on the podium Vettel says 'He never complained to me'. What a disgrace.. his hand signals when Hamilton overtook him were also appalling. Thinks he's the F1 King or something.
 
And then Vettel whinges about Hamilton unlapping himself... he reckons Hamilton (who was faster at the time) should have just sat behind him until the end of the race lol.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101413
Sebastian Vettel hit out at Lewis Hamilton for unlapping himself during the German Grand Prix, calling the McLaren driver's actions "stupid".

Hamilton was a lap down after sustaining a puncture on debris early in the race, but was going faster than leaders Fernando Alonso and Vettel having just pitted for fresh tyres.

The McLaren spent a while between the first and second-placed Ferrari and Red Bull, while at the same time Hamilton's team-mate Jenson Button was closing in on Vettel.

"That was not nice of Lewis. I don't see why he was racing us," said Vettel. "If he wants to go fast he should drop back and find a gap. It was stupid as he was a lap down."

He added: "If you want to go quick and you have no chance to win the race you should respect that and use common sense. I didn't expect him to attack because I didn't see the point, and then I was surprised when he was side by side."

Vettel reckons the delay he incurred battling with Hamilton was critical in his loss of second place to Button in the subsequent pitstops. The Red Bull later regained the spot with a controversial late pass.

"I think that [Hamilton battle] lost us the place to Button because shortly after that we pitted," said Vettel.

Alonso acknowledged that Vettel's dice with Hamilton had been handy for him, and that he would have swiftly let the McLaren past if necessary.

"I knew that if Lewis was close enough with the DRS and trying to overtake, I had no problem to leave the space," said Alonso. "I knew he was not in the race. We didn't want to risk anything. For me it was a good position to have Hamilton between me and Sebastian.

"Having Hamilton there it meant Sebastian was 2.5s behind approaching the pitstop, so I tried to keep Lewis there."

Vettel also felt his Red Bull was not quite quick enough at times in the race, particularly when in traffic.

"Overall the pace was there but it was extremely difficult," said Vettel. "When we were close to Fernando and to Jenson we lost a lot and it was hard to stay close to try something under braking. That seemed to be the problem.

"I'm not entirely happy, because I think we could have been a bit better if we were in clean air for most of the race."

Sorry for Vettel but Lewis had every right to unlap himself and would have kicked himself if he didn't and there was a SC at the end.
 
WJfT0.png


You can clearly see Button leaving room for Vettel here, but Vettel doesn't bother to turn in as he knows he can put his foot on the accelerator earlier and just go off the circuit while button turns his car to be in line with the track. Button sees this and therefore moves across onto the racing line making you think he didnt leave any room.
 
That right there shows you the difference in maturity between Alonso and Vettel. Why would Vettel put up a fight with someone that is faster, far behind in position and nothing to lose?

Seriously, to me Vettel is the Bieber of F1. He pisses me off every time I see him. Would've been way better if he got the damn puncture instead of Hamilton :angry:
 
That right there shows you the difference in maturity between Alonso and Vettel. Why would Vettel put up a fight with someone that is faster, far behind in position and nothing to lose?

Seriously, to me Vettel is the Bieber of F1. He pisses me off every time I see him. Would've been way better if he got the damn puncture instead of Hamilton :angry:

His ego got to him... if he had time to think, he would have let Hamilton go to play with Alonso while he concentrated on his own race... being able to use DRS behind Hamilton for one.
 
That right there shows you the difference in maturity between Alonso and Vettel. Why would Vettel put up a fight with someone that is faster, far behind in position and nothing to lose?

Seriously, to me Vettel is the Bieber of F1. He pisses me off every time I see him. Would've been way better if he got the damn puncture instead of Hamilton :angry:

And I used to think Alonso was worse.. so great that he's matured. Will Vettel mature though? We'll have to see.. but right now he's an utter prick.

wB4B4.jpg
 
Vettel demoted to fifth with 20-second penalty

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/07/22/vettel-demoted-20second-penalty/

Wow, have the FIA grown some balls?

Yeah, Redbull used up their get out of jail free card today after the illegal engine mappings, sorry Vettel.

So this illegal engine mapping was brought up by Mercedes in March already...
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/mercedes-query-renault-engine-maps-092337065.html


http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/424024/Analysis_Red_Bull_engine_investigation/

It's too early to say what the consequences will be for Red Bull if the German Grand Prix stewards agree with FIA technical delegate Joe Bauer's conclusions that Red Bull is in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the F1 technical regulations.

But the allegations are serious.

The regulation in question, which is new to the F1 technical regulations this year, states that: "The maximum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed. The minimum pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or lower than 0Nm."

In simple terms, this regulation dictates that there must be a linear relationship between the throttle pedal position and the torque demand on the engine.

Bauer's statement, released by the FIA, drew two conclusions, the first is that "the maximum torque output of both engines is significantly less in the mid rpm range than previously seen for these engines at other Events.

"In my opinion this it is therefore in breach of Article 5.5.3 of the 2012 Formula One Technical Regulations as the engines are able to deliver more torque at a given engine speed in the mid rpm range."

This suggests that the maximum torque demand seen in the middle of the rev range is lower than the FIA knows the engine to be capable of from previous races. This would mean that the relationship between throttle pedal position and torque demand is therefore not linear, creating a traction control-style effect.

The second conclusion was that "this new torque map will artificially alter the aerodynamic characteristics of both cars". This alludes to off-throttle exhaust blowing, a system which the 2012 regulations were designed to outlaw.

Should the FIA race stewards, which includes former grand prix driver Derek Warwick, concur with Bauer, then it is inevitable that action will be taken.

If they do not, then the car will be deemed legal and not in contravention of Article 5.5.3.

Among the most likely initial outcomes would be the exclusion of Red Bull drivers Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber from qualifying, or even from the entire weekend. This would likely trigger an appeal, meaning that it's possible that they could start the race, with the FIA hearing the appeal at a later date and applying any punishment retrospectively.

Further sanctions cannot be ruled out if Red Bull is found guilty. This could even stretch to race bans, similar to the two-race exclusion of the BAR team in 2005 applied after it was found to be using fuel as ballast. At this stage, however, there is no suggestion from the FIA that this will happen.

Whatever happens, it's likely that the debates about the legality of the Red Bull-Renault RB8 will carry on beyond today.

Ultimately the outcome was that the rules are too flimsy as usual and the law can be bypassed on a whim. They had to penalise Vettel to avoid looking biased. Perhaps they're biased towards keeping the championship exciting, just a huge pity it's an artificial touch. The reality is that Alonso would be alot further down the road and Macca would be closer (if not level?) with RB.
 
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http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12433/7926757/Vettel-and-Horner-slam-Hamilton
Sebastian Vettel has branded Lewis Hamilton "stupid" for unlapping himself during the German Grand Prix, arguing that the McLaren shouldn't have 'interfered' with the race leaders.

Hamilton was running out of contention a lap down having picked up a puncture on the opening lap at Hockenheim but, having just pitted for fresh tyres, found himself right behind race leaders Fernando Alonso and Vettel and just ahead of Button, who was in the process of catching his two rivals.

Vettel confident in last minute overtake
Although out of position and already lapped, Hamilton's McLaren was running at a faster pace at the time on far fresher tyres compared to the three cars around him and the Briton was able to line up and pass Vettel with the aid of DRS on the run to the turn six hairpin on lap 36.

The move drew an animated response from Vettel - with the World Champion to be seen waving his arm from the RB8 cockpit - and he continued his attack on his McLaren rival in the post-race press conference.

"That was not nice of him [Hamilton]. I don't see the point why he is trying to race us," Vettel complained.

"If he wants to go fast then he can drop back, find a gap and go fast there.

"But it's a bit stupid to disturb the leaders. He was a lap down so I don't see the point anyway. I think that potentially lost us the position to Jenson because soon after that we pitted, I think only two or three laps after that."

Hamilton's 100th GP not something to celebrate
Vettel's pass to re-take second from Button on the final lap of the race was at the centre of later controversy as the German driver completed the move with all four wheels off the race track. However, speaking live on Sky Sports F1 amid his defence of his driver's actions in that incident, Red Bull chief Christian Horner suggested Hamilton's alleged crime was far worse.

"I think a bigger incident is what went on with Lewis Hamilton. Why was he interfering with the race leaders?" Horner asked. "He should have respected the fact that they were ahead on the track."

When put to him by Sky Sports F1's Johnny Herbert that Hamilton was actually the quickest car on the track at the time and there is no rule that says you are not allowed to unlap yourself, Horner replied: "Yes and no. Yes and no. He didn't attempt to make any move on Fernando. He was a lap down and this was for the lead of the race. Sebastian gets pushed off line, gets dirt on his tyres and it costs him time in a crucial battle with Fernando Alonso."

Lol @ 'Red Bull makes you Whinge'
 
McLaren hold new world record for fastest F1 pit stop.. 2.4s

[video=youtube;MLc53jL9roc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLc53jL9roc[/video]
 
Always Mclaren in the controversy.
To be fair on Vettel he was off the track most of the race...

Mclarens always whining bout other drivers being unfair, whether it's shumi, Maldonado or Vettel. Mclaren should stop acting like a bunch of girls and start winning races.
 
Always Mclaren in the controversy.
To be fair on Vettel he was off the track most of the race...

Mclarens always whining bout other drivers being unfair, whether it's shumi, Maldonado or Vettel. Mclaren should stop acting like a bunch of girls and start winning races.

Always McLaren? Yeah right, think you mean Red Bull.. with their illegal car.

Fact is, Vettel broke the rules and was penalised for it, McLaren are going to fight for points in a competitive constructors championship whether you like it or not. I would certainly be very worried if they didnt.

Your tears are delicious.
 
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I wouldn't be the first person to argue that these massive concrete run-off areas make life easier for drivers. Not only can they be exploited - Vettel using it to overtake Button - but drivers are no longer punished for their mistakes. Not saying they should line the tracks with concrete walls, but not having a bit of grass and a gravel trap waiting to snare an errant driver takes the challenge out of the sport.
 
Guys, please note that DSTV is not going to show Practice Session 3 for the Hungarian GP.

When I asked why, this was their response:

"Unfortunately due to the sheer volume of sport on during the Olympics, we are unable to broadcast everything. Apologies"


IMHO this is utter b*ll. They could easily put it on SS0 and not disrupt anything else.

Anyone else keen to protest?
 
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