F1 2025

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dotdan said:
I also think the ramifications could spell disaster for the sister team. If RB is going to be a mid-field team for a while until they hopefully rebuild.. why then have a junior team whom they will be competing with for points.
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It is going to be quite an upset in the rankings if RB constantly outscores Redbull, I also think Max moving anywhere would be an interesting start to silly season this year
 
R4ziel said:
If Max leaves Redbull they will be a back marker team, which will be an enormous fall from grace
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But if they listen to his input it won't be a back marker team for long........
Maybe not winning championships but certainly learning and steadily improving.
 
caroper said:
But if they listen to his input it won't be a back marker team for long........
Maybe not winning championships but certainly learning and steadily improving.
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I don't know hey, it seems like Newey and RB has been building that car around how Max likes to drive it, so yes they perhaps can learn and change things but would it be much different?

I just think that Pierre could not fix some underlining issues whilst still giving Max the front pointy car that he wants to drive which Newey could have perhaps done with the 24-25 car if he stayed on. In essence the car's issues and design has completely run away from everyone which is why no one expect Max can still get something out of it.

What confidence would Max have in the chief engineer over the last 2 years seeing that car go from dominant machine to a car no one can drive.
 
Key Red Bull document reveal hints at reason for Christian Horner axing:
— The unexpected dismissal of Christian Horner from Red Bull Racing may be linked to a recent shift in the ownership structure of Red Bull GmbH. Documents filed in Austria indicate a change in ownership, potentially impacting Horner's position.
— The ownership stake of Chalerm Yoovidhya in Red Bull GmbH has been transferred, altering the company's dynamics. On May 31st, documents confirmed the transfer of Yoovidhya's 2 percent stake to Fides Trustees SA. According to its website, Fides Trustees is:
“an independent boutique Trust company that strives to deliver excellent service combined with a prudent yet entrepreneurial approach to Trust and Corporate Services.”
— This transfer marks the first time in Red Bull GmbH's history that the Yoovidhya family is no longer the majority shareholder, as their ownership now equals that of the Austrian side. The implications of this change are significant, as it may have influenced Horner's removal. Reports noted:
“Yoovidhya's sale of his personal stake removed the safety net Horner had earned by having the support of Charlerm Yoovidhya.”
— The Thai and Austrian shareholders had previously assembled a new board of management, appointing Franz Watzlawick as CEO, Alexander Kirchmayr as CFO, and Oliver Mintzlaff as CEO of Red Bull's corporate projects and investments department. This structure has been in place since Dietrich Mateschitz's death in 2022. Reports suggested:
“Horner had not retained the support of the Austrian shareholding under Mark Mateschitz, but the British executive's job was saved by the unwavering support of the Yoovidhyas.”
— With the Yoovidhya family no longer holding a majority, the Austrian side may have gained the opportunity to reassess Horner's future. The change in ownership structure could have allowed for a re-evaluation of Horner's role, leading to his sudden ousting.
— Having failed in its desire to remove Horner last year, the sale of Yoovidhya's two percent meant Horner was no longer protected by the Thai side being the majority shareholders.
— The new ownership structure of Red Bull GmbH is now divided as follows: 49 percent held by Distribution & Marketing GmbH (Mateschitz/Austria), 49 percent by TC Agro Trading Company Ltd. (Yoovidhya family/Thailand), and 2 percent by Fides Trustees.

This is Formula 1​

 
caroper said:
But if they listen to his input it won't be a back marker team for long........
Maybe not winning championships but certainly learning and steadily improving.
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I have gotten Honda MotoGP/Marc Marquez vibes from Red Bull.

Build a bike/car around a generational talent, eventually to the point that only he can ride/drive it. But you build it to such a fine edge that the slightest change/error/miscalculation throws the bike/car completely out of balance. In the end not even the person you built the bike/car around can drive/ride it and it starts biting your generational talent in the ass.

Towards the end, Honda's MotoGP machine was literally eating Marc alive and damn near ended his career. And all Honda had ever done was listen to Marc when developing and evolving the bike. Before Honda fell to the basement of MotoGP, one of their experienced riders and lead test rider - Cal Crutchlow - who had previously been capable of winning the odd race on a Handa, warned Honda to start listening to their other riders before it is too late. In the end, Cal himself was maimed by the Honda, contributing to his retirement, and not long after his retirement the bike started eating Marc.

The Red Bull situation could be a case of Newey designing something on a knife edge that only Max could drive, and then they slipped off that knife edge and now it takes every ounce of Max's ability to drive it. Or they have been listening to Max, and he has led development down a path where not even he can do anything with it.
 
thestaggy said:
I have gotten Honda MotoGP/Marc Marquez vibes from Red Bull.

Build a bike/car around a generational talent, eventually to the point that only he can ride/drive it. But you build it to such a fine edge that the slightest change/error/miscalculation throws the bike/car completely out of balance. In the end not even the person you built the bike/car around can drive/ride it and it starts biting your generational talent in the ass.

Towards the end, Honda's MotoGP machine was literally eating Marc alive and damn near ended his career. And all Honda had ever done was listen to Marc when developing and evolving the bike. Before Honda fell to the basement of MotoGP, one of their experienced riders and lead test rider - Cal Crutchlow - who had previously been capable of winning the odd race on a Handa, warned Honda to start listening to their other riders before it is too late. In the end, Cal himself was maimed by the Honda, contributing to his retirement, and not long after his retirement the bike started eating Marc.

The Red Bull situation could be a case of Newey designing something on a knife edge that only Max could drive, and then they slipped off that knife edge and now it takes every ounce of Max's ability to drive it. Or they have been listening to Max, and he has led development down a path where not even he can do anything with it.
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Also didnt help in that situation that Ducati got better and better so Marc had to over-ride the bike to be competitive. Similar to how Max has to over drive the RB - since Mclaren and Ferrari have improved as well
 
FlashSA said:
Can't help but think that Ford and the big sponsors are wetting themselves. Horner would have been involved in all of those marriages and now not only he gets cut, but the big cheese marketing fellow as well.

I'm starting to get house of cards vibes here....
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If they fired the nazi instead, nobody would have even batted an eye. Max is leaving anyway so that should have never factored into it...
 
FlashSA said:
Can't help but think that Ford and the big sponsors are wetting themselves. Horner would have been involved in all of those marriages and now not only he gets cut, but the big cheese marketing fellow as well.

I'm starting to get house of cards vibes here....
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Well Helmut Marko has won if, as is rumored, he now has total control via the Austrian shere holdings.
But at this rate it will soon be worth nothing.
Is he just too stubborn to see that the team is imploding and his internal politics and radical changes are not installing any confidence?
 
How the mighty... seemingly has fallen.
That's why teams like McLaren, Williams and Ferrari endure.
 
MaxQz said:
How the mighty... seemingly has fallen.
That's why teams like McLaren, Williams and Ferrari endure.
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I dunno if what Williams has been doing is enduring - more like suffering tbh
 
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