F1 2025

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thestaggy said:
Red Bull have never tasted success without Newey. This is a new era for them.

But to respond to your points about the other teams: Ferrari have gone through bad times in their history. Heck, look at their 1980 season. Went from drivers and constructor's champions in 1979 to picking up 8 points in 1980. And since then they have had ups and downs. Sometiems barely ahead of the midfield teams, then a period of sustained success with Michael-Todt-Brawn-Byrne.

In terms of success rate, Merc are the most successful team in F1 (39% win rate, been drivers and constructors' champions in over 50% of the championships they have entered), but the recent years (2022 - present) have, by their standards, been the worst in their history.

Point I am making; no F1 team in history has consistently been at the top. They all have their low periods and the sport has also lost a number of legendary teams.



Likewise, you are supremely confident that Red Bull will be immune to the realities of F1; all teams hit a rough patch.
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You seem to miss the point. People say Red Bull is going to be a back of the grid team. They won't. Thats what I am saying.
Finishing in the top 3-4 is not back of the grid, like Merc the last few years, still a top team, just not the best.

I don't care about Ferrari history or Merc. You said Red Bull lost Newey. I said many teams have won without Newey. He is not a god. Their are many great people around, Red Bull have money. Last years struggling car with this years is still a Newey design.
The whole Red Bull is just so fast because of Newey was created by British media(and MBB members) because they would not want to give Max credit for his skills.
 
so much talk about Max leaving.

I dont think it will happen. Horner left like his dad wanted. so this is red bull that Max wants.

dont take that as a slander at Max, because its not/
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
You seem to miss the point. People say Red Bull is going to be a back of the grid team. They won't. Thats what I am saying.
Finishing in the top 3-4 is not back of the grid, like Merc the last few years, still a top team, just not the best.

I don't care about Ferrari history or Merc. You said Red Bull lost Newey. I said many teams have won without Newey. He is not a god. Their are many great people around, Red Bull have money. Last years struggling car with this years is still a Newey design.
The whole Red Bull is just so fast because of Newey was created by British media(and MBB members) because they would not want to give Max credit for his skills.
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I gave you Merc and Ferrari's history to show you that the most successful teams in F1 history have dipped. Red Bull's history is too short for you to so confidently state they will be immune to the peaks and troughs that EVERY F1 team has endured. And sometimes those troughs can be abysmal.

Losing Newey is massive. I am not even going to bother pointing this out to you.

Then the other factor, Ford. Sure, Red Bull can cushion their entry with the knowledge they have built up with the Honda-RBPT venture, but we have no idea what their engine situation is going to be like.
 
That was crazy track evolution, yoh. Drivers will be squabbling like crazy to get the right track position for their finals runs in SQ3
 
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