F1 2025

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PCWARITM said:
So they're still unable to manufacture their own engine? Anyway, we knew this from the start. The whole RBPT thing was a bit of a marketing thing. Would be interesting to see if they take it to supply stage. They're going to have plenty dev tokens.
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RBPT have a fully-fledged engine production facility (design and manufacture) and have been building, developing and maintaining their current engines in partnership with Honda (I got this wrong. Honda, through their HRC division, have been maintaining the current engines - development has been frozen -, but RBPT are equipped to develop and build their own engines, and they have been doing this). They have brought people in from Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault alongside retaining Honda engineers to run their engine program.

The original scope with Ford was for Ford to focus on the electronics, engine software and battery technology while RBPT would handle the ICE. This was since expanded and Ford are now playing a role in the development of the ICE. But make no mistake, RBPT can build their own engines. It just makes sense to take on a partner to help where there are still gaps.

Some fun facts -

Since the 80s, Renault hasn't built their own F1 engines. Their engines have been built by engineering firm Mecachrome. Regards the current Renault F1 engine, Mecachrome forges the cylinder block, assembles the PUs and bench tests them.

Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains based in Brixworth? Started out as Ilmor in 1983, a private engineering firm. When Mercedes re-entered F1 in the mid 90s, Ilmor built their engines. Prior to F1, Ilmor had developed and built engines on behalf of Mercedes for use in Indycar and sportscar (sportscar was in partnership with Sauber before they entered F1 themselves). Over the years Merc took over more and more control, eventually buying it outright in 2001.

And the most notable example of all; Cosworth. That wasn't a Ford-designed or built engine. Ford just bankrolled Mike Costin and Keith Duckworth and contractually stuck their name on the engines. They eventually bought Cosworth, but that expertise wasn't in-house.

So yeah, not uncommon in F1 for manufacturers to enter partnerships with tuning/engineering firms to develop and build engines. Right now, RBPT are somewhere between an assembly house and fully-fledged manufacturer, and they will have knowledge on a modern F1 engine that Ford doesn't. The gaps RBPT has have been filled by Honda and more will be covered by Ford.
 
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satanboy said:
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I'm not sure about this so may be a stupid question, but is there a rule or regulation stopping girls from going through the formula 4 -> Formula 1 pipeline, if there is nothing stopping them from going through the normal channels, we shouldn't just have a quota system because that's what is right I think.

It should be made more accessible for girls to rise through the ranks, but not outright just say 40% of them needs to be female because we said so, that would take away from the pinnacle of F1
 
  • Regional F4 championships: Some national or regional F4 series, like French F4, now have separate categories and award trophies for female drivers who are also competing in the overall, mixed-gender championship.
  • General F4 rules: The overarching regulations for F4, set by the FIA (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile), are the same for all drivers in a specific championship, regardless of gender.
  • Open to all genders: Formula 3 is an open-wheel racing championship, and both male and female drivers can compete under the same rules.
  • Gender-neutral regulations: The FIA updated the sporting regulations for F3 (and F2) to use gender-neutral language, replacing terms like "he" and "him" with "the driver" or "they" and "them" to ensure inclusivity.
 
R4ziel said:
I'm not sure about this so may be a stupid question, but is there a rule or regulation stopping girls from going through the formula 4 -> Formula 1 pipeline, if there is nothing stopping them from going through the normal channels, we shouldn't just have a quota system because that's what is right I think.

It should be made more accessible for girls to rise through the ranks, but not outright just say 40% of them needs to be female because we said so, that would take away from the pinnacle of F1
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Would the best of the females be better than Strollovich and Latifi?
 
PCWARITM said:
Nah...
en.wikipedia.org

Honda V6 hybrid Formula One power unit - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The RBPTH001 is a development of the RA621H designed for use in the 2022 Formula 1 World Championship (and subsequently the 2023 Formula 1 World Championship) powering the Red Bull Racing RB18 and AlphaTauri AT03 in 2022 and the Red Bull Racing RB19 and AlphaTauri AT04 in 2023. It represents the final permitted power unit design change before the engine freeze began on March 1st, 2022.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_V6_hybrid_Formula_One_power_unit#cite_note-21"><span>[</span>21<span>]</span></a>

After Honda's formal F1 exit, the engines remain Honda-developed, produced, assembled, maintained, and trackside supported, and will remain as such until the end of the 2025 season when a new engine era will begin. Honda developed the 2022 RBPTH001 power unit at its research and development centre in Sakura City, Tochigi prefecture, run by Honda’s racing subsidiary, HRC (Honda Racing Corporation).
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Are you arguing whether RBPT have the capacity to build an engine?

They have been recruiting engineers from Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault since 2021, andpart of their agreement with Honda was for Honda to provide them with the necessary IP to build an engine, which they have done, firing up an engine that was produced in-house in 2022.

This hallway is named after Steve Brodie, an employee who was one of the first to come over from Mercedes HPP in August 2021 and played an important role in setting up the Powertrains facility. His official title is 'Head of Power Unit Operations', which means Brodie is in charge of the ICE and ERS build shops to make sure Red Bull-Ford build it to the correct specifications, standards and consistency.

One of the engines can be seen immediately upon entering. "This was the very first combustion engine we made," Horner explains. "The fire-up of this V6 was in August 2022. Dietrich Mateschitz was able to hear this first ever Red Bull engine just before he passed away. After his death we decided to label all our engines as DM, so Dietrich will always be at the heart of Red Bull cars."

Horner adds that after initial talks, the engine on display also played a role in convincing Ford to join the project when negotiations between Red Bull and Porsche broke down. "When it became clear that it wouldn't work for Red Bull with Porsche, I literally received Christian Horner's email address, sent him an email and asked 'hey, maybe you want to talk to us?'", Rushbrook explains.
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"Based on our initial discussions, we [Ford] were only going to contribute to the electrical parts of the 2026 engine, but now we are also contributing to the turbocharger and testing rigs for the combustion engine, also because Ford already had knowledge or equipment for that."
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PCWARITM said:
No, I'm questioning whether they will be ready.
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Ready in what way?

The 2026 PU was already being bench tested earlier in the year and running simulations. Ford have publicly stated that they are happy with their own progress and happy with the open communication with RBPT.

PCWARITM said:
That IP is out the window though, only the Ford developed stuff is allowed.
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Honda can retain their IP. Doesn't change the fact that RBPT have already produced a functional ICE. Ford are not building the ICE, they are focused on the electrification side of the PU while contributing to the development of the ICE, specifically the turbo.

RBPT has been working towards their own engine since 2021, when they first started to recruit senior engineers from Mercedes. They didn't want to be a customer team again after the sour ending to the Renault partnership and Honda's initial decision to quit nearly left them scrambling for an engine partner. This is also why the Porsche deal collapsed.

Honda reversed their decision to quit F1 but at the same time didn't want to be a partner in the RBPT project which Red Bull had committed themselves to, so that wasn't going to work for either party. This is why Red Bull was the main driver behind freezing the engine regs in 2022, it bought them time to develop in-house for 2026 while continuing the relationship with Honda.

The Porsche deal didn't work because Porsche wanted more control and influence over the RBPT program. Red Bull have invested too much into RBPT and want to be a fully-fledged engine manufacturer, so giving Porsche control over their program was not going to happen. Ford came in because they are comfortable with being a technical partner and deferring to RBPT to take the lead on an engine program.
 
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Craig_ said:
Would the best of the females be better than Strollovich and Latifi?
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But would His Highness Mohammed Ben Sulayem allow Women to Drive?
Surely it would offend his sponsor countries especially if they drove without a burka.
:unsure: :rolleyes:
 
I don't doubt there are woman who are fast, I doubt whether they have the physical capabilities to handle a F1 car, especially on tough circuits.

These guys train hard to be able to handle the G-Force through cornering and braking. The core and neck strength needed is insane.
 
PCWARITM said:
No durability testing is a major question mark.
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This isn't unique to RBPT. Honda had to walk this road, and painfully so when they returned in 2014 (remember the McLaren days?), and both Audi and GM are going to have to go through this as well.

Saying that, Red Bull and Ford are under no illusions as to the scale of the task. Mekies openly said it is akin to climbing Mount Everest -

"I think Toto is right by saying it’s an Everest to climb. That’s what it is," the Frenchman [Laurent Mekies] began.

"It’s as crazy as it gets to take the decision to do your own power unit, as Red Bull has done. It's an unbelievable challenge to be associated with. It’s the sort of crazy stuff Red Bull does – so it’s a good feeling."

"But we don’t underestimate how crazy it is. These guys [Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda] have been doing it for 90 years or something like that.
"So it would be silly from our side to think we're going to come here and, right from the start, be at Ferrari’s or Mercedes’ level. That would be silly."

But it’s a challenge that very much feels like a Red Bull challenge, and we love that.

"We’re not going to put a number on where we think we’ll be – because I don’t think anybody has a number – but we know we’re starting with a mountain to climb, as Toto said."
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Mark Rushbrook, director of Ford Performance, has spoken directly about reliability and durability -

“There is obviously still a lot of work to do and a lot to prove in terms of durability, but the partnership — the openness, the trust and the contribution from both sides — has been excellent so far,” Rushbrook said.

“It’s everything we hoped for and actually more than we expected.”

“But when it comes to achieving the power numbers, then absolutely,” he said when asked if things were on track.

“Then it’s about the reliability tests to match that. Do you achieve everything perfectly? No, but that’s the reality of any programme.

“It just happens as you go along and then it’s about how you respond, in terms of urgency and in terms of the mindset of the people. So we respond to what we see.

“When the engine develops and finds more power, then of course it’s always about testing reliability. So it’s: power, reliability, power, reliability.”

The initial power is there; now it’s all about honing that craft.
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Susie Wolff maintains defamation case against FIA as "ongoing" update issued:
— Susie Wolff confirmed her legal action against the FIA is ongoing after the governing body reviewed whether her husband, Toto Wolff's, role as Mercedes team principal could pose a conflict of interest. The issue, which began in December 2023, was resolved within 48 hours when the FIA expressed satisfaction with compliance measures. However, Wolff felt her credibility was damaged. Speaking to The Times, she remarked:
“I refused to be treated that way. It created a huge amount of articles doubting my integrity.”
“People can have their opinions on [whether] what I do is good or not. But that’s something I won’t allow to happen, that people attack my integrity.”
— Following the investigation, Wolff initiated a defamation case against the FIA, which remains an "ongoing process." The FIA has not provided a resolution timeline but previously stated:
“Following a review of Formula One Management’s F1 code of conduct and F1 conflict of interest policy and confirmation that appropriate protective measures are in place to mitigate any potential conflicts, the FIA is satisfied that FOM’s compliance management system is robust enough to prevent any unauthorized disclosure of confidential information.”
— Lewis Hamilton, then a Mercedes driver, expressed support for Wolff, praising her courage and leadership:
“Firstly, I'm incredibly proud of Susie. I think she's so brave and she stands for such great values. She's such a leader, and in a world where often people are silenced, for her to be standing up sends such a great message. And I love that she's taken it out of this world - fighting it from outside because there is a real lack of accountability here within this sport, within the FIA, things that are happening behind closed doors.”
“There is no transparency, there is clearly no accountability, and we need that. I think the fans need that. How can you trust the sport and what is happening here if you don't have that?”
“So hopefully this stand that she's taken now will create change, will have a positive impact, and especially for women.”

This is Formula 1
 
PCWARITM said:
What doesn't he know that you do? Guenther Steiner should not express an opinion? Steady there Führer...
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I have no idea, I was just Quoting your post, or don't you actually read what you are posting? Just in case here it is:
"But, I don't know. I haven't spoken with him since he left Red Bull, so I don't know what's in his mind, what he wants to do.""
 
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