F1 - General discussion and 2017

Heavyonthemagick said:
But they make it back by elevating the sport. This sport needs all the help it can get. Selfishness like that is what kills excitement. Without the fans this sport is nothing.

P.S. and Ricciardo were epic. Ricciardo needs to be on that podium way more often.
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It could also kill a mid table team.
 
Heavyonthemagick said:
Or gain them a bigger fanbase.
Team orders kills the fanbase.
We need the teams with long term commitment to the sport being rewarded.
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I don't see the argument here.
There were no team orders, it was a suggestion, it was not taken up and they had a very close scrap as a result.
In hind sight they should have swapped but either way they helped Red Bull by holding Vettel up for so long and gave us an exciting finish.
 
Cross Posted from Reddit:

On tonight's episode of the Canadian GP
  • A teenager goes around the outside
  • The pink panther leaps Ferrari
  • The Red Bull family continue their tradition of cocking up pitstops
  • Perez gets the high ground on Ocon
  • Honda's allergies to the points continues
  • Alonso goes into the crowd to see if anyone can sell him a better PU
  • Despite never being shown on screen, a Mercedes wins
  • A non-Villeneuve Canadian scores a point
  • Ricciardo gets Professor Xavier to do a shoey
 
caroper said:
And Zak Brown is on the board of Cotsworth who supplied Mclaren the engine for the last Championship that Senna won.
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Senna never won a title with Cosworth power. That was the primary motivation behind his departure, McLaren could not guarantee him an engine that could match the Renaults after they lost Honda. They took on customer Ford power (Benetton were the works team) and were signed on to run Peugeots for '94, none of which excited Senna.
 
Nice race, pity i fell asleep lap 40 to end :(.

Well done Lewis and glad that he has neutralized signs of domination.

Good result for FI and Renault.
 
caroper said:
I don't see the argument here.
There were no team orders, it was a suggestion, it was not taken up and they had a very close scrap as a result.
In hind sight they should have swapped but either way they helped Red Bull by holding Vettel up for so long and gave us an exciting finish.
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There's part of the argument (in bold). I say no. I say let the team mate who claims to be faster, earn his place in front of his counterpart. Fans want to watch racing and all of this is very easy when you don't care for either driver, but what if you're a driver of the frontrunner, do you want to see your guy lose points over a team order? No. If you must go the team order route, you have that discussion, without ambiguity, including penalties for disobeying, behind closed doors before a race.

My original point was:

I blame Force India for not having that discussion before the race / season. It's not nice to ask drivers to move over for a 'faster' teammate. Faster cars need to overtake IMO - teammates or not. What if you're a fan of the frontrunner?
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You don't have that discussion over the radio.
 
caroper said:
Cross Posted from Reddit:

On tonight's episode of the Canadian GP
  • The Red Bull family continue their tradition of cocking up pitstops
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130097/kvyat-calls-f1-stewarding-a-stupid-circus

"I don't understand this. It's a circus, a stupid ****ing circus.

"I will go and talk to Charlie. It's annoying me, it's really annoying me.

"A simple job, and he can't even do that job properly.

"Maybe it's better to go in the back room because now the heat is up for me I will not want to say anything wrong to any of them and I'm not really sure it's Charlie.

"I want to understand first of all who does this job.

"All I know is our team manager was for 10 laps arguing with the FIA that we shouldn't get another additional penalty and they said 'no, sorry, we have this'."

When Kvyat took the extra 10s penalty, a wheelnut problem caused a severe pitstop delay and prompted his subsequent retirement.
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The stewards cocked up so badly there. I feel for Kvyat.
 
Alonso and Ralph Schumacher in war of words over Karting circuit

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130074/ralf-schumacher-and-alonso-in-kart-track-row
Former Formula 1 rivals Fernando Alonso and Ralf Schumacher have become embroiled in a war of words over Alonso's karting facility in Oviedo.

This weekend Alonso's circuit is hosting the CIK-FIA European Championship, the most prestigious event in its short history.

Schumacher's KSM team is competing, but he has complained that the venue is not up to standard and that karts were being damaged and drivers risked injury.

In a post on KSM's Facebook page, Schumacher said he had warned officials about the track earlier in the year after testing.

"I'm very disappointed about this race because we face a very unusual situation," he wrote.

"For the first time since I joined karting again it feels totally wrong to race at a track like this.

"Don't get me wrong, but I was trying to explain back in January after testing here for three days that the layout of the track is not one we should be racing on at a CIK or FIA level.

"Now we are here and we destroy more material than you could imagine.

"This race is going to cost a fortune for all participants and only because a decision has been taken by people that don't understand the needs of karting.

"On top of that we risk the health of our drivers, which again is unbelievable.

"One can only hope that people start to listen to the teams so that we can avoid this in the future."

Alonso defended his venue when asked about Schumacher's comments in the Canadian Grand Prix paddock.

"First of all I think Ralf needs some publicity - he has been so many years now out of the first page, and he wants to take benefit from this," Alonso said.

"We have an Asturias championship, the Spanish championship, and now the European championship, together with the FIA and CIK homologations, so they tell you which space between the track you need to have, what space of run-off area you need to have, what cornering speed you need to have, what kerbs you need to fit, because there are standards for all the circuits.

"According to those we built the circuit and we are hosting this weekend a fantastic event with more than 200 drivers there.

"And yeah, I saw Ralf's comments, that he broke some chains and tyres and axles.

"I think he needs to tell his drivers to drive on the asphalt, that's the first thing, because all the other teams are OK. Only his team has maybe run out of money."

Alonso suggested the fact Schumacher had a kart track of his own was a factor in his complaints.

"The second thing is we cannot forget that he has a go-kart circuit, in Germany, and he wanted to host the European championship, and maybe the FIA was not so happy with his circuit the way it is," Alonso added.
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Azerbaijan next in 2 weeks, Baku.

Stunning circuit imo, hellova boring race last year so i hope for some excitement there this time.
 
caroper said:
Thanks, I stand corrected.
The old memory cells are not up to the task like they used to be :)
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Ha, no worries. He drove the bollocks out of it though, lead the championship for a bit.


"First of all I think Ralf needs some publicity - he has been so many years now out of the first page, and he wants to take benefit from this," Alonso said.

...

''And yeah, I saw Ralf's comments, that he broke some chains and tyres and axles.

"I think he needs to tell his drivers to drive on the asphalt, that's the first thing, because all the other teams are OK. Only his team has maybe run out of money."
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Shots fired.
 
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‘McLaren’s decision to drop Honda has been made’

McLaren have already decided to break away from Honda, they’re just trying to figure out how to make it public – that’s the opinion of Mike Gascoyne.

Robbed of a first World Championship point by yet another Honda engine failure, McLaren’s criticism of their engine partner reached new heights in the wake of their Canadian GP disappointment.

“Not good enough” was racing director Eric Boullier’s assessment while Fernando Alonso spoke of his “frustration.”

And it appears as if it could be only a matter of time before McLaren announce that they are parting ways with Honda.

“The rhetoric has been quite critical for the last couple of races and it just sounds like a decision has been made and they are just fencing around about how to make it public,” former Toyota technical boss Gascoyne said on the Sky’s F1 Report: Canada review show.

“There has been a big shift and Honda, if anything, are getting worse.”

Meanwhile Zak Brown, McLaren’s CEO, has stated that even the estimated £80 million that Honda put on the table is no longer worth the loss in sponsorship, prize money and reputation.

“I think it just becomes a business decision,” Crash.net quotes him as having said. “As nice as the Honda contract is and I’m sure there’s lots of teams here that would love to have the contractual relationship, at the end of the day you start losing a lot of money in prize money which is all easily documented. We lost sponsor partners to other teams.”
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Source
 
About time, though I am sad Honda haven't been able to sort their issues out.
 
UrBaN963 said:
About time, though I am sad Honda haven't been able to sort their issues out.
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Yeah agreed. They will be supplying Sauber next year but that is hardly the high profile partnership (with all due respect to Sauber) that the one with McLaren brought.

While their decision to start return to Mercedes is understandable, it's disappointing that another engine supplier (Toyota, BMW, VW etc) hasn't taken the chance to step in. Probably far too short notice (and prohibitively expensive) though to develop a competitive engine.
 
Agent_Smith said:
Yeah agreed. They will be supplying Sauber next year but that is hardly the high profile partnership (with all due respect to Sauber) that the one with McLaren brought.

While their decision to start return to Mercedes is understandable, it's disappointing that another engine supplier (Toyota, BMW, VW etc) hasn't taken the chance to step in. Probably far too short notice (and prohibitively expensive) though to develop a competitive engine.
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I've had similar thoughts. Toyota and VW Group certainly have the wherewithal to develop an engine though it would take some serious commitment. BMW as well I suppose, though they aren't nearly as large so I'm not sure how a return to F1 would go for them. Thy have the history but the engines are so different now, I don't know if they could apply any of their knowhow.
 
Neither Toyota or VW should find it difficult to design a hybrid F1 engine as Porsche and Toyota have successfully developed hybrid engines for the WEC.
 
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