In terms of crime how is that different? Most of the crime is committed against South Africans on a daily basis. My question is how is crime linked to a world cup. Crime is not being commited at stadiums where soccer or rugby is being played. The world Cup stadiums will obviously be much more secure. I don't quite get the connection..?? Ordinary citizens get murdered during house breakings and robberies. I don't know if there's something that I'm missing but a place like Iraq (with a lot of public violence) would have been justified in trying to prevent a world cup (or anything for that matter) from being played there!
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Fans threaten 2010 boycott
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In terms of crime how is that different? Most of the crime is committed against South Africans on a daily basis. My question is how is crime linked to a world cup. Crime is not being commited at stadiums where soccer or rugby is being played. The world Cup stadiums will obviously be much more secure. I don't quite get the connection..?? Ordinary citizens get murdered during house breakings and robberies. I don't know if there's something that I'm missing but a place like Iraq (with a lot of public violence) would have been justified in trying to prevent a world cup (or anything for that matter) from being played there!
Hang on mate... There are various and many crimes being committed at various stadiums around the country. Theft (including armed robberies - there was an armed robbery during a rugby test sometime last year), car theft (especially during cricket matches), fraud (especially ticket fraud), pickpocketing, muggings, assault, indecent assault and even rape are common occurrences during our sporting events.
Don't forget the stampede at Elispark. Hope they have enough tickets at a reasonable price, or there will be a repeat performance from people that will see it as their right to be able to watch the game.
and those crimes happen right under the SAPS and stadium security's noses. Yeah, that's right, they are also watching the game.
Oh my. There's not enough police watching us so let's stab, kill, steal, mug, rob and rape. Wow. My point was that crime does occur - which was a counter to your rather inexcusably incorrect assertion.
Yes it does occur, but a lot of it occurs away from the stadiums where no SAPS or security is in sight. My point was that, it's not something that should be seen as threatening the world cup. Fifa seems to agree with me, otherwise they would have given it to Morroco.
Crime is a real threat to the world cup, whether anyone in government or in general society would like to admit it or not. Just because there are SAPS and security personnel present does not eliminate crime, as already shown. FIFA runs the world cup like a business, they honestly do not care about the country it's being hosted in, as long as the country becomes a FIFA whore, they're happy. South Africa is extremely happy to be a FIFA whore. Oh, and where did FIFA say they are not concerned about the pending crime problem in 2010? In all the various news reports I have read on this issue, FIFA officials have on more than one occasion raised concerns about the rampant crime problem in South Africa.
But it really doesn't matter, you're once again trying to drag a wider more general argument into the debate to try and prove your ailing point. Stick with what we've been discussing so far, ok? For a start, your assertion that stadiums are crime free was and is rubbish. End of argument.
(DmZ)Wrecky
Expert Member
Rugby is barbarian game watched by gentlemen, soccer is a gentlemen’s game watched by barbarians.
That is the difference..
That is the difference..
That still does not explain how FIFA chose South Africa over Morroco/Egypt if they were so concerned about the rampant crime. The world cup was awarded to SA in '04. Crime was already rampant in the '90s. Surely the FIFA inspectors thoroughly assessed the situation before making their decision. I don't get the feeling they are regretful of that decision. If you have sources pointing to the contrary, please post here.
What about that dude that headbutted the referee during a rugby match? I'd say he's a damn good example of what babarism is all about, LOL. Soccer players are also amongst the most volatile sportsmen. I don't know where you get off calling them gentlemen. They cheat, dope, simulate fouls etc. As for their spectators, I couldn't agree with you more. There's been countless incidents of stadium vandalism during Chiefs/Pirates matches. But the world cup is a different affair. A lot of those vandals would not even get near the stadiums. The cost of the tickets is quite prohibitive. We just have to worry about the racist European spectators(the notorius monkey noises) and of course the english/german hooligans.
You're going off on a tangent now. FIFA chose South Africa for various reasons, and have highlighted that the safety of WC2010 tourists is of the utmost importance. If crime were a dismissive factor, then SA would never ever hold a world cup event. The bottom line is whether anyone wants to admit it or not, if crime is not brought down to completely acceptable levels (and 20k plus murders a year is not suitable levels, doesn't matter how much Nqakula and his b1tch Jackie Selebi try and convince us that a 1% reduction is something to be happy about), it will damage South Africa's reputation on a world wide platform.
mac_mac74
Expert Member
since FIFA sets the price of the tickets, it should be interesting to see what happens when a mob (like the Elispark barbarians) find out they may not be able to afford a ticket.
perhaps a strike for free tickets , kinda like the mob that strikes when they dont want to pay for education, well then maybe FIFA will see the real SA.
Ye when the 2 biggest rivals Pirates and Chiefs play.
It happens all over the world, Brazil is the worst, Spain and Italy and even Portugal.
I just dont see Ghana VS Cameroon resulting in a stampede.
What if South Africa plays one of those sides and the ref makes a bad decision against SA?
Ye when the 2 biggest rivals Pirates and Chiefs play.
It happens all over the world, Brazil is the worst, Spain and Italy and even Portugal.
I just dont see Ghana VS Cameroon resulting in a stampede.
Chiefs fans have landed their team in hot water on many occasions, including playing to empty stadiums, massive fines, etc. Soccer in this country is fanatical just like many other countries, but we've had some dire problems with crowds here - especially if there is alcohol present. As mentioned before, in a stampede only tragedy ensues.
It is interesting you bring up Brazil as the "worst" though - none of my research has brought up any Brazilian side being forced to play to an empty stadium because the fans are incapable of good behaviour. Please substantiate your claim.
Bafana bafana is one the most unpopular teams on the continent. Usually they play infront of empty stands. It's even worse when they play African opposition! They usually draw bigger crowds when playing against more high profile opposition like england/france etc. Besides, most of the 1996 AFCON games held in South Africa were incident free. The fanatical support is mostly reserved for K Chiefs and Pirates. Not that I want to argue, but as an avid follower of the local game, I just needed to point that out.
You think this will prevail through to the world cup? Sorry, but I think the majority of the fans will get caught up in WC fever and support SA....
xtermin8or
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he is not off on a tangent, he makes a good point, FIFA officials were not blind to the crime problem in the country, but as you yourself point out, FIFA chose the country for a variety of reasons. For tourists visiting SA for the WC this will be positive rather than negative, remember that tourism in SA has been growing with more and more people saying they will return, this foolish perception that you and your cronies have that people will visit then run scared is just that stupid.
The exposure an event like the World Cup brings for a country is priceless, and not only for the visitors, but more importantly for the people watching the event, think about some of the countries and cities that hosted major sporting events - Olympics, WC's etc. you know their names now, did you know it before ?
The World Cup, is an important opportunity for South Africa, it will help us grow in all spheres of socioeconomics and politics, it is however not a saviour, and Govt does not see it as such, clearly shown by most of Govt's plans going way beyond 2010 - 1 example - the City of Tshwane has an extensive plan, call it an extreme makeover for the city center and it should be completed by 2014