Farm attacks 'beyond insane'

[Fudzy]

"But all races of the rainbow get's slaughtered in SA, why should theeeeeeyyy be special?! Mmmm????" Love that line on mybb.

Yes, all South Africans should be treated equally. Except for criminals, they deserve nothing.

 

[Mila]

Weren't the commandos heavily involved with the AWB/Volksfront?

EDIT: Just to add, I have no issue with the establishment of a special division of the police being set up as commandos as long as they don't have any of the old bad blood. Then again, it will probably be argued that the new force is corrupt and will only add to the problem. Quite a catch 22.

How did you get to that?
No they were part of the defense force deployed in rural and farming communities.

 

[Fudzy]

How did you get to that?
No they were part of the defense force deployed in rural and farming communities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Commando_System

Disbandment

The system was phased out between 2003 and 2008 “because of the role it played in the apartheid era”, according to the Minister of Safety and Security Charles Nqakula.[10] In 2005 then-Minister of Defence Mousioua Lekota explained that the process was "driven partly to counter racist elements within some of commandos, but also because of constitutional issues."[11] This followed growing pressure after incidents of ongoing abuse of power were reported.[12]
The last commando unit, that at Harrismith in the Free State, was disbanded in March 2008. At their peak 186 of these units, ranging in size from a company to a battalion, existed. The number of individual commando members varied according to different sources, but it is estimated that there were between 50,000 and 70,000.

 

[Fudzy]

Also:

Regarding Bophuthatswana and the fall of Mangope, I have three questions.. One, Constand Viljoen maintains that he had a sufficient corps of former Commandos in place, disciplined, well-trained, who were prepared to seize a piece of the land or take military action, but that he had made it clear he wanted no involvement of the AWB and that when the AWB went into Bophuthatswana he said, 'This is it, I'm out, I'm out of here, I will not deal with these people, simply will not deal with them'.

In that sense – not to put it argumentatively -- should one thank Eugene Terre'Blanche and the AWB for being such a messy, horrible group of undisciplined thugs that they made Viljoen's side pull out of Bophuthatswana and thereby sealed Mangope's fate and averted the threat of the white right?

Two, do you think that, had Viljoen decided to press ahead with whatever armed forced he had at his disposal, it would have proved a problem?

Three, I understand that you had a role to play, that you accompanied General George Meiring, head of the SADF, on his trip to Bop to restore order and effectively, on the instructions of the government or the TEC or whomever, to tell Lucas Mangope that his days were up and that he should start packing his bags?

I do not want to rob General Constand Viljoen of an important role that he has played in this transition, but I think the statement that he is making is too narrow to be confined to a militaristic standpoint. There was evidence long before that that a whole set of forces on the white right were gathering together with a view to blocking any change to democracy and that Constand Viljoen had emerged as a critical element in that equation because of his access to the Defence Force and particularly to the Commandos. And it is clear that they were organised. But there were all the signs for a political person to see that those forces that he was gathering together and who had put him in the lead were doing it with different agendas, including Eugene Terre'Blanche.

http://www.nelsonmandela.org/omalley/index.php/site/q/03lv02039/04lv02133/05lv02157/06lv02166.htm

 

[Mila]

A bit of selective quoting don't you think?
Mbeki disbanded them promising a specialized plolice force.

All motivation this lazy government of ours harp on is apartheid/racism. If we call it that our voters will hate the whites and vote ANC.
Why was it not replaced by this promised units? Pure incompetence or lack of interest. It's disgusting. In all this time the ANC could not get a specialized force together?
Incompetent.

 

[Fudzy]

Mbeki disbanded them promising a specialized plolice force.

When did he say that?

PS. Sorry I could have quoted both links in full but only those parts were relevant to the answer I was providing you.

 

[Mila]

When did he say that?

PS. Sorry I could have quoted both links in full but only those parts were relevant to the answer I was providing you.

Answer to which Question? The AWB part? Or the Defence force part? The link you provided was about about pre 1994, and that Constant had access to the military and commandos. But refused to use those to aid the AWB. IT's not saying that the Commando's were AWB.
( Oh yes and I did forget that pre 1994 almost everybody was a part time SANDF officer thanks to conscriptions , so you could easily sign up for this commando service. )
Yes I agree there was bad apples and they should be brought to justice and sent to jail. Not all of these people were racist idiots.
Saying its racist and from the old government and closing it down is stupid Why not close down the police? Being a racist is not a crime or we could have sent the whole AWB to the slammer. Replace the idiots with other people. It's not just white people being killed in farming areas. Or live op to the promise you made by saying a new unit will be created.
Seems like it was just to much work.
http://beta.mnet.co.za/carteblanche/Article.aspx?Id=2739&ShowId=2
They left a void. The commando's helped.

Use the Defence force. What was the report a year or so ago? one third of the military was on sick leave for the whole year? Its because they have nothing to do so nobody misses them.

Do not employ racists. But just do something for our rural communities, and if you catch a racist, punish them.

 

[R13...]

"But all races of the rainbow get's slaughtered in SA, why should theeeeeeyyy be special?! Mmmm????" Love that line on mybb.

At least the police will deign to mount an investigation when a farmer is murdered and in lots of cases the killers are caught. The rest of the murdered only get a case number and that's the end of it.

 

[Fudzy]

Answer to which Question? The AWB part? Or the Defence force part?

How did you get to that?

That question. Yes, they were deployed in rural areas but they only have themselves to blame for their disbandenment:

Six commando members, five privates and an officer, at Randfontein HQ, who refused to be identified for fear of victimisation, claimed this week that they would prey on the community they have been risking their lives to protect, if the government abandoned them.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/commandos-threaten-to-turn-to-crime-1.234204

The National Land Committee (NLC) urged government on Monday to immediately disband the controversial army commando unit of accused of torturing farm workers in southern Mpumalanga, African Eye News Service (South Africa) reports.

The demand follows the arrest of two Wakkerstroom commando members on allegations of shooting a 50-year-old farm worker last week.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200005300141.html

 

[Mila]

That question. Yes, they were deployed in rural areas but they only have themselves to blame for their disbandenment:



http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/commandos-threaten-to-turn-to-crime-1.234204



http://allafrica.com/stories/200005300141.html

So we should disband all units if a few people are racists? Can we start with the ANC?
What about the police? Idiots are everywhere.

So we punish everybody because the deeds of a few. This is such a current government mentality. Instead of dealing with the issue at hand?

So disband them, where is the units that were suppose to replace them? For a country with a high level of unemployment this government loves killing jobs.

 

[Fudzy]

So disband them, where is the units that were suppose to replace them?

I'm still waiting for you to find me that answer, from what I've read it looks like government were expecting the police to pick up the slack.

 

[Mila]

I'm still waiting for you to find me that answer, from what I've read it looks like government were expecting the police to pick up the slack.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Mbeki-Commando-here-to-stay-20030425

Lichtenburg - The commando system will not be phased out, but it will be re-organised, said President Thabo Mbeki during a visit to the North West on Friday

.

"We are going to re-arrange the commando system and not phase it out. We will not leave a vacuum, because that will not help at all to counter crime in rural areas.

From your wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Commando_System

On the 14th of February 2003 President Mbeki announced that the commando system would be phased out and replaced with sector policing under the leadership of the SAPS. The reasoning behind this was that crime prevention was not the mandate of the SANDF, but the responsibility of the SAPS.1 The President’s announcement created a great deal of unhappiness amongst farmers who rely upon commandos for rural safety and security. On the 5th of August 2003 the minister of Safety and Security confirmed that the commandos would be phased out over six years, but that special police units would be established in the rural areas and that commando members could get involved in these

2005:

Derek: 'Why was the Nelspruit Commando closed down before other effective structures were in place as promised?'

Colonel Pieter Harmse (SANDF): 'Remember that the SANDF who are closing down the Commandos or withdrawing support to the police are not withdrawing support to the police with other resources.'

Derek: 'But let's take Nelspruit... 110 commandos out of the picture. Who is going to help the police?'

Pieter: 'If the request comes through the provincial joint system to the SANDF to assist, then the SANDF will put forward the necessary resources to do so.'

Derek: 'But the point is, the troops now have to come from Middelburg, which is a long way away.'

Pieter: 'Most probably... or they even fly in from Pretoria. It all depends on what the threat at that stage is.'

Derek: 'But Colonel, if there is a farm attack it's going to be hours before troops arrive from Middleburg or anywhere else.'

Pieter: 'Remember the commando system is also a voluntary system. Those people are not full-time jobs. So even if there is a farm attack, those people still have to be called up in any case to react.'

Derek: 'But they're right... they're in the area.'

Pieter: 'Ja, but so are the police.'

Derek: 'Commissioner, your police stations are stretched to the limit at the moment. Now you're pushing them further by taking away the Commandos.'

Commissioner Ben Groenewald (SAPS): 'We agreed that there are, especially the rural police stations are not fully equipped, but with the assistance of the community and the existing reservists we can attend to all possibilities.'

Derek: 'And you're confident of that?'

Ben: 'If the parlet shows that there will be vacuums then we can address the vacuums, but we cannot address vacuums based on speculations.'

For these Nelspruit commando members, the commando was their life. Last year, working with the police, they apprehended 262 suspects and seized over a million rands worth of stolen goods. This week their unit closed for good and now all they have is memories

This has never been done. Our farmers are still waiting for assistance.

 

[Thugscub]

I have just given up farming. 20 people go without work and water now.
Do I care? Not a fek.
I am not going to murdered.

Import food and *** and betaal.

 

[TheMightyQuin]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Mbeki-Commando-here-to-stay-20030425
.


From your wiki link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Commando_System


2005:


This has never been done. Our farmers are still waiting for assistance.

A bottle of Bells on its way to you, Mila.

Wondering why the ANC praise singers went quiet so suddenly? Oh I know...the typical ANC defect: Baffled by facts.

 

[Fudzy]

A bottle of Bells on its way to you, Mila.

Wondering why the ANC praise singers went quiet so suddenly? Oh I know...the typical ANC defect: Baffled by facts.

Who the ANC praise singers?

 

[STS]

A bottle of Bells on its way to you, Mila.

Wondering why the ANC praise singers went quiet so suddenly? Oh I know...the typical ANC defect: Baffled by facts.

I want you to know that if you, and anyone continue to do this, i am going to RBP you guys to hell for now on as of this moment. Unless you can back this up with facts and show us where we're singing praises of the ANC, this is an insult. Me and a number of members here don't call members nazis because they want the commandos back or because they cry about only whites dying, but a number of members that offer any criticism or opposing views is immediately aligned with the ANC.

how about we're simply sick of the ANC's and the members here's ****?

 

[Fudzy]

I want you to know that if you, and anyone continue to do this, i am going to RBP you guys to hell for now on as of this moment. Unless you can back this up with facts and show us where we're singing praises of the ANC, this is an insult. Me and a number of members here don't call members nazis because they want the commandos back or because they cry about only whites dying, but a number of members that offer any criticism or opposing views is immediately aligned with the ANC.

how about we're simply sick of the ANC's and the members here's ****?

They'll be banned soon enough.

 

[Mila]

I want you to know that if you, and anyone continue to do this, i am going to RBP you guys to hell for now on as of this moment. Unless you can back this up with facts and show us where we're singing praises of the ANC, this is an insult. Me and a number of members here don't call members nazis because they want the commandos back or because they cry about only whites dying, but a number of members that offer any criticism or opposing views is immediately aligned with the ANC.

how about we're simply sick of the ANC's and the members here's ****?

And who are you talking about?
My my hit a nerve?

 

[STS]

And who are you talking about?
My my hit a nerve?

I quoted who i was on about, but it wasn't that one post, it's numerous posts. I've raised this issue before, Antowan wanted to give everyone hidings for using the label "racist", and i pointed out calling someone an ANC supporter when they supported the ANC in no way is just as bad, you might as well call them a hypocritical imbecile then.

i know a lot of members here are good people and are misunderstood, but at the same time chirping in with comments and calling posters "anc supporters" as obove is just a thinly veiled way of insulting someone. you might as well call them and me pedophiles, as there is just as much proof of that as us supporting the ANC.

just because some member's minds are so tiny that the can't differintiate between a real supporter and someone highlighting a point doesn't mean that a poster needs to be branded a label they do not deserve

 

[Mila]

I quoted who i was on about, but it wasn't that one post, it's numerous posts. I've raised this issue before, Antowan wanted to give everyone hidings for using the label "racist", and i pointed out calling someone an ANC supporter when they supported the ANC in no way is just as bad, you might as well call them a hypocritical imbecile then.

i know a lot of members here are good people and are misunderstood, but at the same time chirping in with comments and calling posters "anc supporters" as obove is just a thinly veiled way of insulting someone. you might as well call them and me pedophiles, as there is just as much proof of that as us supporting the ANC.

just because some member's minds are so tiny that the can't differentiate between a real supporter and someone highlighting a point doesn't mean that a poster needs to be branded a label they do not deserve

You missed the question. And he was talking to me. How do you get all fired up by that?
Chill. HE was not talking to you.