Farm Attacks

The highlighted bit is the problematic part. We see so may threads showing how incompetent the SANDF is - you know, they can't march properly, their R4s get stolen, Lesotho or Zim could invade us at any time etc.

So where does this "military precision" come from? I would have thought it would have ruled out SANDF involvement surely?

What people forget is that along with the 30 000 white commandos, there were also 15 000 black commandos when the system disbanded. Where are they now?

Of all the criminals caught, what benefit did they get from killing the family on the farm? And of all the criminals caught today have any of them given up any ANC staff as paying them?
 
I cannot confirm this. But with the rate at which our military hardware disappears, I wouldn't be surprising if these devices find legs.

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That's the same picture from years ago from unknown origin, I wish Afriforum or other security can catch come other guys with jammers and then do a press release about it. Or at least details surrounding this picture be released (was on this or that farm, taken by the CCTV, on this or that date, there was a successful or unsuccessful attack launched.
 
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What people forget is that along with the 30 000 white commandos, there were also 15 000 black commandos when the system disbanded. Where are they now?

Of all the criminals caught, what benefit did they get from killing the family on the farm? And of all the criminals caught today have any of them given up any ANC staff as paying them?

A very good point actually. And have any of them taken over the farms? Nope.....
 
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That's the same picture from years ago from unknown origin, I wish Afriforum or other security can catch come other guys with jammers and then do a press release about it. Or at least details surrounding this picture be released (was on this or that farm, taken by the CCTV, on this or that date, there was a successful or unsuccessful attack launched.

Yeah, I do too.

More information is always better.
 
IMO the savages would do what they love doing to urban dwellers too but in an urban/suburban setting they're more likely to be caught. Neighbours are more likely to hear people being tortured etc. as well as duration being a factor. The isolation a farm offers is also what the savages use to their advantage.
 
I disagree.
Disbanding departments that protected people in rural areas -especially the people who feeds us all, regardless of color- was not "incompetence".
It was intentional.
Constantly singing about murdering people...who are still actively being murdered right now in 2020, is not "incompetence".
It's intentional.
Not condemning or actively speaking out about or doing something about people who are murdered at an alarming rate, is not "incompetence".
It's intentional.
So yes, I totally believe it's all "part of the plan."

You can also include government's response to public protests.
 
The highlighted bit is the problematic part. We see so may threads showing how incompetent the SANDF is - you know, they can't march properly, their R4s get stolen, Lesotho or Zim could invade us at any time etc.

So where does this "military precision" come from? I would have thought it would have ruled out SANDF involvement surely?
Your snarky response is not appreciated. People are being murdered. Facts are facts.
 
OK, so a farmer is more likely to be killed than a city dweller.

Now in the city, a township dweller is much more likely to be murdered than a suburb dweller, so is that also a government plan? Genocide of poor people? But that's the ANC voting base. :unsure:

Nobody said anything about genocide, so I'm not quite sure why you're bringing it up.

There are, literally, magnitudes more people in a single large township than there are farmers in the entire country.
Do you not see the problem here?
Comparing the two is disingenuous.

Could it be that farms are just easy targets? Similar to how a township dweller is an easier target (harder than farm, many more people around) than a suburb dweller with their alarm and armed response.

I'm sorry, I no longer buy this excuse.
I mentioned it to R13, so I'll recap in short order:
No one in government is talking about it -specifically the "leader" of the country and the anc- nevermind doing anything about it.
Cyril flat out denied it to the world.

A small group of people are, literally, being tortured and murdered with very little stolen...and you don't see a problem here..?
 
Farmers are easier targets and also usually have more stuff at home than shack dwellers.

There is also definitely a cultural aspect to some murders(extreme racism), but so far in it seems that many of them are simply robberies or even revenge killings. The problem is that they all get lumped in together into the same pot under the guise of genocide.

All we need is evidence of a genocide. Nobody is denying farm killings, nobody is excusing them, but there has to be a root cause or start to the process that makes people think it is deliberate and intentional.

We have 10000 page Trump threads on evidence, motives and theories on what Trump is doing on the toilet but when it comes to genocide we have "look at the pictures", "these guys had radio jammers", "they sing a song about shooting us".

Give meetings, give money transfers, give emails, give us photos of ANC officials meeting with killers, etc.

Seriously?
No one said anything about genocide. (I most certainly did not.)
SS came along, pulled it out of thin air...and that's what you run with?
C'mon now, dude.

It is a REAL issue that NEEDS addressing, but that goes for all vulnerable south africans, not just vulnerable white farmers

It's simple, really:

There are 100 rhinos.
10 are killed.
There are only 90 left.
vs
There are 10,000 gazelle.
100 are killed.
There are 9,900 left.

Of course, ten times more gazelle died, but there are many thousands more left.
Disclaimer: I don't condone anybody being murdered (obviously).

This is important and virtually always ignored.

Whatever the reason for the killings, government is doing nothing about it.
That is not incompetence.
That is intentional.
 
Nobody said anything about genocide, so I'm not quite sure why you're bringing it up.

There are, literally, magnitudes more people in a single large township than there are farmers in the entire country.
Do you not see the problem here?
Comparing the two is disingenuous.


I'm sorry, I no longer buy this excuse.
I mentioned it to R13, so I'll recap in short order:
No one in government is talking about it -specifically the "leader" of the country and the anc- nevermind doing anything about it.
Cyril flat out denied it to the world.

A small group of people are, literally, being tortured and murdered with very little stolen...and you don't see a problem here..?

A murder is a murder and this is why the movement/cause isn't kicking off, we are all suffering in the country and trying to make it out as if this is a bigger issue than other things is what is alienating people. Not to mention the cause has attracted a great deal of white supremacist attention(and if you follow any video links in a farm murder thread anywhere, they all link to white supremacist channels and sometimes even antisemitic channels.)

Even if the above is irrelevant, to the rest of your points

* Nobody is talking about it coz it will seem that they are pandering to white people when crime affects all equally
* Where did Cyril flat out deny it? It seems like thee is someone who can GENUINELY help the cause and farmers but almost every poster on social media takes an opportunity to **** on him. From what I recall, he said there is NO GENOCIDE, not that farm murders weren't happening?
* Where is the evidence of "very little stolen"? Where are the stats? Every time I DO hear the result of an arrest it is someone that the farmer knew, had work for them or stuff was taken?

It just feels like instead of looking for answers, people are creating their own boogeyman and making the situation worse. We ALL want farm murders to stop, but first the inconsistencies and lies have to stop
 
Seriously?
No one said anything about genocide. (I most certainly did not.)
SS came along, pulled it out of thin air...and that's what you run with?
C'mon now, dude.

It's simple, really:

There are 100 rhinos.
10 are killed.
There are only 90 left.
vs
There are 10,000 gazelle.
100 are killed.
There are 9,900 left.


Of course, ten times more gazelle died, but there are many thousands more left.
Disclaimer: I don't condone anybody being murdered (obviously).

This is important and virtually always ignored.

Whatever the reason for the killings, government is doing nothing about it.
That is not incompetence.
That is intentional.

We are not rhinos and gazelle's, we are people, and this is where the movement is suffering in that we are making 10 farmers more important than 100 township dwellers.

You might as well argue if it is better to let 10 people die to save 100 or 100 die to save 10 since we are trying to emotionally detach ourselves from the horror of murder in our country.

Again, with intentional murders comes evidence. The government may be turning a blind eye to farm murders but they are turning a blind eye to virtually everything, including kids starving, corruption, the education system, the infrastructure, etc. Why not say the government is destroying the country than just allowing farm murders? Why narrow it down to one agenda?
 

I mean this is the crux of the argument isn't it? The Black lives movement should be called "Black lives matter only" whereas the Farm murders movement should be called "White farm murders only" movement.

In their countries and political landscapes they both have their issues and challenges, but no life is more important than another's life. There is no problem with HIGHLIGHTING the issue, but making it seem like a bigger issue than what is happening to everyone around them is what is killing these causes
 
A murder is a murder and this is why the movement/cause isn't kicking off, we are all suffering in the country and trying to make it out as if this is a bigger issue than other things is what is alienating people. Not to mention the cause has attracted a great deal of white supremacist attention(and if you follow any video links in a farm murder thread anywhere, they all link to white supremacist channels and sometimes even antisemitic channels.)

I agree, the problem gets tainted by a-holes, but it's happening.
Something still needs to be done about it.

Even if the above is irrelevant, to the rest of your points

* Nobody is talking about it coz it will seem that they are pandering to white people when crime affects all equally
Of course, because keeping / saving face is more important than people being tortured and murdered at an alarmingly high rate.

* Where did Cyril flat out deny it? It seems like thee is someone who can GENUINELY help the cause and farmers but almost every poster on social media takes an opportunity to **** on him. From what I recall, he said there is NO GENOCIDE, not that farm murders weren't happening?

No idea who this guy is, but the first part of the video has the interview in question.


* Where is the evidence of "very little stolen"? Where are the stats? Every time I DO hear the result of an arrest it is someone that the farmer knew, had work for them or stuff was taken?
Afriforum has some stats. I usually hear or read about it in the news. Sometimes nothing is taken. Sometimes a cellphone, sometimes some weapons, sometimes a few thousand rand.
Like I said, very little -nothing that warrants hours and hours of torture ending in death.
(How does Afriforum get their stats? From the police and from going to every single farm murder scene to help any survivors -if there are any- with trauma counseling. First hand experience.)

It just feels like instead of looking for answers, people are creating their own boogeyman and making the situation worse. We ALL want farm murders to stop, but first the inconsistencies and lies have to stop
What inconsistencies and lies and from who?
Don't list some obscure racist group that no one's ever heard of. Those types never get any airtime -and if they do, definitely not enough to be remembered or known -as proven by
the fact that I can't name any off the top of my head.

We are not rhinos and gazelle's, we are people, and this is where the movement is suffering in that we are making 10 farmers more important than 100 township dwellers.

You might as well argue if it is better to let 10 people die to save 100 or 100 die to save 10 since we are trying to emotionally detach ourselves from the horror of murder in our country.
Did I say anywhere that one murder is more important than any other murder?
I don't know how else to say this anymore, so I'll try one last time:

I'm asking why this is still being ignored, nay, denied by the president of this country.
Why does he not publicly condemn it?


Why doesn't he bring back something like the commando's?
It's very doable. All it takes is a stroke of his pen and it's done.
Doing something about township murder issues is waaay more complicated.

And also BTW, as I mentioned to SS, this argument of all the black people in townships vs a profession is absolutely disingenuous.
Why don't we compare apples with apples?
Farmers vs (insert your profession of choice here)

Again, with intentional murders comes evidence. The government may be turning a blind eye to farm murders but they are turning a blind eye to virtually everything, including kids starving, corruption, the education system, the infrastructure, etc. Why not say the government is destroying the country than just allowing farm murders? Why narrow it down to one agenda?

I bet you if ambulance drivers (or any other profession for that matter) were being murdered at the rate that farmers are, something would've been done ages ago.
(Yeah, I know, ambulance drivers have been attacked recently...but not tortured and murdered at the rate that farmers are.)
Look at what a big deal it is when a cop is killed on the job, but when it comes to farmers...mum's pretty much the word.
 
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A murder is a murder and this is why the movement/cause isn't kicking off, we are all suffering in the country and trying to make it out as if this is a bigger issue than other things is what is alienating people. Not to mention the cause has attracted a great deal of white supremacist attention(and if you follow any video links in a farm murder thread anywhere, they all link to white supremacist channels and sometimes even antisemitic channels.)

Even if the above is irrelevant, to the rest of your points

* Nobody is talking about it coz it will seem that they are pandering to white people when crime affects all equally
* Where did Cyril flat out deny it? It seems like thee is someone who can GENUINELY help the cause and farmers but almost every poster on social media takes an opportunity to **** on him. From what I recall, he said there is NO GENOCIDE, not that farm murders weren't happening?
* Where is the evidence of "very little stolen"? Where are the stats? Every time I DO hear the result of an arrest it is someone that the farmer knew, had work for them or stuff was taken?

It just feels like instead of looking for answers, people are creating their own boogeyman and making the situation worse. We ALL want farm murders to stop, but first the inconsistencies and lies have to stop
Indeed, where are those stats? Was that not exactly the issue a bit back.

Now here is the funny thing. Stats are powerful. They prove or disprove a problem if collected impartially. I regularly delve into certain stats to prove a problem. Important is also how you define exactly what you're trying to measure. I have some brilliant slides in my presentations comparing stats between the US and EU. The problem comes to mapping those across countries and deinitions. As such the EU did some good work in this regard.

On the other hand, if you don't want to acknowledge a problem, you don't measure it. Oh hum ...

And that was exactly topical also in something I presented on today to role players across the world. Incidentally it's of extreme concern to the rest of the world, also where South Africa causing a problem in their countries.

Our govt can tell you exactly everything about every thing they want to know. I repat: What they want to know about. Probably even your condom size if they could.

What does our stats say about the problem I spoke about? What stats, we don't have a problem.:X3:

Nice little game in plausible deniability.
 
I'm asking why this is still being ignored, nay, denied by the president of this country.
Why does he not publicly condemn it?

+1000

My blood boiled when I initially saw that interview and does so every time I've seen it since. This single clip is all anyone need know about his character.
 
What people forget is that along with the 30 000 white commandos, there were also 15 000 black commandos when the system disbanded. Where are they now?

Of all the criminals caught, what benefit did they get from killing the family on the farm? And of all the criminals caught today have any of them given up any ANC staff as paying them?
If you actually bother to pay any attention to the mainstream media, you will know that the black commandos were "absorbed" into the SAPS as "Class D" reservists by our Police Commissioner and "Head of Interpol" disgraced ANC comrade POS Jackie Selebrity.

They were paid as commandos, which caused huge uproar and many resignations in the (unpaid) police reserve, because the vast majority were illiterate and could not even start a docket, and amongst many other shortcomings, were not competent in handling firearms (Z-88 / Beretta 92FS) and other weaponry that all SAPS members were competent in at the time. Our erstwhile "honourable comrade" POS commissioner's orders to pay them the same rate as they were being paid as commandos, whilst they were grossly incompetent at any reasonable policing function, was too bitter a pill to swallow for many reservists, who were characterized by their service to their communities without any compensation whatsoever. They left by their hundreds. In many instances it was these unpaid reservists who were holding the last bastions at police stations, and when they left, the imminent rot in the SAPS gained full momentum.
 
If you actually bother to pay any attention to the mainstream media, you will know that the black commandos were "absorbed" into the SAPS as "Class D" reservists by our Police Commissioner and "Head of Interpol" disgraced ANC comrade POS Jackie Selebrity.

They were paid as commandos, which caused huge uproar and many resignations in the (unpaid) police reserve, because the vast majority were illiterate and could not even start a docket, and amongst many other shortcomings, were not competent in handling firearms (Z-88 / Beretta 92FS) and other weaponry that all SAPS members were competent in at the time. Our erstwhile "honourable comrade" POS commissioner's orders to pay them the same rate as they were being paid as commandos, whilst they were grossly incompetent at any reasonable policing function, was too bitter a pill to swallow for many reservists, who were characterized by their service to their communities without any compensation whatsoever. They left by their hundreds. In many instances it was these unpaid reservists who were holding the last bastions at police stations, and when they left, the imminent rot in the SAPS gained full momentum.

I knew they were OFFERED to join the SAPS reservists as well as well as having other offers. This offer was also open to every race of commando, the point is not only the white commandos were disbanded.

I am just saying people with the skills of the commandos had to go somewhere as well, some of them probably became criminals too.
 
and then you get murders said to be robberies gone wrong. as if they were there and somehow know. meanwhile taking something is easy because its owner is now dead. "oh you say the cellphone is missing? robbery... tick"
 
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