Farm Attacks

[STS]

lol silly argument.

do you know what incitement or motivate means.

how many people chanting "**** da police" have been arrested in relation to crime against police officers. but hey, "thug life"....

So how many people chanting "**** the police" have actually committed assault or crimes against the police?

Technically they're not saying WHICH boers either, they're not singing "shoot the boer, living on 27 Park Lane, Centurion, third complex on the left. You can get discount guns at Joey's cornerstore. Boer sleeps in on Sundays."

So what is the actual argument? That someone is inciting farm murders, they guys caught are interviewed and ask "why did you do it?" and answer "Coz I heard Malema say that farmers were the reason I was poor, so i went out, bought a gun, travelled 660km and shot a guy without taking anything"?

 

[access]

So farm workers lives DON'T matter? they aren't important when farms get attacked?

of course they do, they matter to the farmer and to the country as a whole. but not to our government, they get their food in the shops...

the point here is, "shoot the boer" is being incited and motivated and their death is happening for seemingly no reason other than just needing to kill them.

if we had people chanting shoot the farm worker, yes that would be a problem. but we dont.

 

[STS]

of course they do, they matter to the farmer and to the country as a whole. but not to our government, they get their food in the shops...

the point here is, "shoot the boer" is being incited and motivated and their death is happening for seemingly no reason other than just needing to kill them.

if we had people chanting shoot the farm worker, yes that would be a problem. but we dont.

But statistically, from third party investigators, farm workers are dying at the same high levels as white farmers? That isn't a problem?

Should they be excluded from the solution?

 

[vigras rojara]

Your snarky response is not appreciated. People are being murdered. Facts are facts.

So sorry you did not appreciate my comment Vrotappel. I won't sleep well tonight knowing this.

Perhaps you could answer my question though?

 

[access]

So how many people chanting "**** the police" have actually committed assault or crimes against the police?

Technically they're not saying WHICH boers either, they're not singing "shoot the boer, living on 27 Park Lane, Centurion, third complex on the left. You can get discount guns at Joey's cornerstore. Boer sleeps in on Sundays."

So what is the actual argument? That someone is inciting farm murders, they guys caught are interviewed and ask "why did you do it?" and answer "Coz I heard Malema say that farmers were the reason I was poor, so i went out, bought a gun, travelled 660km and shot a guy without taking anything"?

i thought showing you the ridiculousness of your question might make you realise its nonsense, meanwhile is caused you to repeat the question. like a post boot loop.

as i said: " boer, has a very specific connotation to white afrikaans speaking farm owners in south africa " everyone knows this, they are even in our history as a nation of people.

large crowds of people and leaders are inciting/motivating the murder of "white afrikaans speaking farm owners in south africa" is the argument. and it is happening.

you are arguing that it is okay to chant, "shoot the women and children" or "shoot the black people" because it might be happening anyway.

 

[STS]

i thought showing you the ridiculousness of your question might make you realise its nonsense, meanwhile is caused you to repeat the question. like a post boot loop.

as i said: " boer, has a very specific connotation to white afrikaans speaking farm owners in south africa " everyone knows this, they are even in our history as a nation of people.

large crowds of people and leaders are inciting/motivating the murder of "white afrikaans speaking farm owners in south africa" is the argument. and it is happening.

you are arguing that it is okay to chant, "shoot the women and children" or "shoot the black people" because it might be happening anyway.

I am not denying that singing a song(especially one with a political meaning and origin in struggle) can be seen as incitement(as in the struggle isn't over yet), but i was mocking you if you think this proves all farm murders are racially motivated. So instead of meetings, contract killings, purchasing weapons, bribing people and surveying target sites, they get together a couple of times a year, sing songs to arrange a genocide? imagine how ridiculous this looks to me

It didn't say it's okay, I said it's not proof of a conspiracy. If this is your best evidence for a plot by government to eliminate the boere then I suggest working on your pitch a bit better before we go to the UN

 

[access]

I am not denying that singing a song(especially one with a political meaning and origin in struggle) can be seen as incitement(as in the struggle isn't over yet), but i was mocking you if you think this proves all farm murders are racially motivated. So instead of meetings, contract killings, purchasing weapons, bribing people and surveying target sites, they get together a couple of times a year, sing songs to arrange a genocide? imagine how ridiculous this looks to me

It didn't say it's okay, I said it's not proof of a conspiracy. If this is your best evidence for a plot by government to eliminate the boere then I suggest working on your pitch a bit better before we go to the UN

i never said anything about a conspiracy or that all farm murders are racially motivated.

i am saying incitement is occurring and its consequences are ensuing. this is true to any incitement.

It consisted of persuading, encouraging, instigating, pressuring, or threatening so as to cause another to commit a crime.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

I am not denying that singing a song(especially one with a political meaning and origin in struggle) can be seen as incitement(as in the struggle isn't over yet), but i was mocking you if you think this proves all farm murders are racially motivated. So instead of meetings, contract killings, purchasing weapons, bribing people and surveying target sites, they get together a couple of times a year, sing songs to arrange a genocide? imagine how ridiculous this looks to me

It didn't say it's okay, I said it's not proof of a conspiracy. If this is your best evidence for a plot by government to eliminate the boere then I suggest working on your pitch a bit better before we go to the UN

If I had such evidence, I'd not be posting it up here where people can work out how to twist and turn facts.

You yourself acknowledged you have have no clue as to stats etc. So where is the problem? You clearly missed the point of my post on stats.

 

[STS]

i never said anything about a conspiracy or that all farm murders are racially motivated.

i am saying incitement is occurring and its consequences are ensuing. this is true to any incitement.

Cool, you came up with a solution. Let's ban the singing of the songs and the murders will most likely decrease, at least we have a goal and target now

 

[STS]

If I had such evidence, I'd not be posting it up here where people can work out how to twist and turn facts.

You yourself acknowledged you have have no clue as to stats etc. So where is the problem? You clearly missed the point of my post on stats.

I am saying whining and spreading misinformation is not gojng to solve the very big and serious problem, so in our behaviour and future interactions with others, we can encourage them to join the cause and have mature talks on it.

Let's focus on all farmers and the good of our country, rather than making this racial

 

[access]

Cool, you came up with a solution. Let's ban the singing of the songs and the murders will most likely decrease, at least we have a goal and target now

i never came up with hate crime laws(threats of injury of death)... give it a rest guy. youre making a tit of yourself even further.

 

[STS]

i never came up with hate crime laws(threats of injury of death)... give it a rest guy. youre making a tit of yourself even further.

So you don't believe it is a solution? Then why are fixated on it?

A thousand excuses again, but go sign another petition, we'll get there eventually

 

[Sl8er]

So what do you call the bolded, since it's not genocide related apparently, since you have a problem with me bringing it up.

I call it "fcked up".
No one said anything about genocide.
You mentioned it...STS continued with it.

Since there is mos government involvement with jammers or such or do you dismiss those claims?

Since I mos said anything about jammers, please feel free to quote me.

And on the first section, I am talking likelihood of being victim of murder and why, not raw numbers and percentages of 100 000s or anything, so what are you going on about?

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

 

[supersunbird]

I call it "fcked up".
No one said anything about genocide.
You mentioned it...STS continued with it.

Well, that is good then, that no one around here says it's state sponsored then (which would make it genocidal).

Since I mos said anything about jammers, please feel free to quote me.

Never said you said that, was just asking you about it (hence the ?).

Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

You talk about raw number (for example rhinos and gazelles), while I am not talking about that.

 

[Sl8er]

What the hell, I never said anything about black people, stop putting words in my mouth. I am comparing risk... farm attack the risk is lower than city, in city, township is lower risk than suburb (said suburb could be black you know). But if you insist, Farmer vs unemployed...

Anyway, go preach to the farmers and help them fortify their residences, I bet most of the attacks happen at residences.

OK, so a farmer is more likely to be killed than a city dweller.

Now in the city, a township dweller is much more likely to be murdered than a suburb dweller, so is that also a government plan? Genocide of poor people? But that's the ANC voting base.

Could it be that farms are just easy targets? Similar to how a township dweller is an easier target (harder than farm, many more people around) than a suburb dweller with their alarm and armed response.

Who lives on a farm?
Farmers...farmers live on a farm. The people who farm.

Who -for the most part- live in townships?
Black folks live in townships.

Lemme clarify, because I know someone might come along and try and twist what I'm saying:
Not all black folks live in townships, but -sadly- most townships are occupied by mostly black folks.

And BTW: I totally agree that farmers are easy targets...all the more reason for government to step up to the plate...instead of sitting on their hands doing and, for the most part,
saying nothing about it.

Nowhere did I ever say that they are actively involved in gearing people up to go out and kill farmers -although, given their violent nature (just look at how they're murdering each other
for political positions and power in other parts of the country) it wouldn't surprise me at all. There is no evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Their plan is to simply sit back and let it happen.
I'm no expert but that sounds a lot like plausible deniability to me :-/

 

[rietrot]

Yes, removing the commandos was intentional. The ANC I think did that because they saw the commandos as a militia plus they were almost entirely made up of former apartheid soldiers and operatives. In addition to that, I think they saw it as abandoning their voters while offering special protection to mainly white farmers. Their own people were and are suffering worse. (I know the debate about farm murder per capita and how those numbers are muddled depending on who you ask).


The singing of the song is regrettable and stupid. And it does vilify people already under siege.


Various government people have condemned farm violence and murders. And even promised special focus - not sure what ever came of that.

If farmers want the commandos they can just start their own local security company. Many do this already. We have high unemployment and it is easy to find cheap security guards that can even patrol an area.

We already have private security like this in the cities everywhere.

 

[rietrot]

Their inaction speaks louder than words. From the beginning they dismantled the structures that could protect the farmers. Fact is that a lot of people in the ANC considers business and farmers as the enemy. That mindset has not changed.

Inaction = incompetence.

From both farmers and government. The farms that do get attacked are easy targets.

 

[Vrotappel]

Who lives on a farm?
Farmers...farmers live on a farm. The people who farm.

Who -for the most part- live in townships?
Black folks live in townships.

Lemme clarify, because I know someone might come along and try and twist what I'm saying:
Not all black folks live in townships, but -sadly- most townships are occupied by mostly black folks.

And BTW: I totally agree that farmers are easy targets...all the more reason for government to step up to the plate...instead of sitting on their hands doing and, for the most part,
saying nothing about it.

Nowhere did I ever say that they are actively involved in gearing people up to go out and kill farmers -although, given their violent nature (just look at how they're murdering each other
for political positions and power in other parts of the country) it wouldn't surprise me at all. There is no evidence, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Their plan is to simply sit back and let it happen.
I'm no expert but that sounds a lot like plausible deniability to me :-/

Indirectly their public utterings against whites and farmers are also not helping.

 

[Vrotappel]

Stuff like this:

These included a tweet about “trembling white cowards” who are the “thieving rapist descendants of Van Riebeck [sic]” and one saying that Zindzi was “wondering how the world of shivering land thieves is doing” while out “wining and dining” at a restaurant.

 

[rietrot]

It is easy to strip a farm from loads of stuff, especially after all is dead and the landline cut, but often nothing or only a cellphone is stolen, why ?

Because the people that do this are poor and have very few ambitions past getting their next fix. They can easy carry a cellphone for a couple of kilometers and sell it fo R100 to by alcohol or nyope or something.