Fibre Estate Monopoly

SupaMonkey

SupaMonkey

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Hey everyone,
What are my options for breaking an infrastructure monopoly in an estate?
SADV rolled out the infrastructure. Vumatel bought them over.
SADV/Vumatel are the worst priced providers in the industry probably and I am paying 8.5k a year for 20/10Mbps Uncapped Fibre where you can get offerings anywhere from 1/2 that to 1/3 that.

Signed petitions? Complaints at AGM? Approach someone like MetroFibre with confirmation of "x amount of switchovers"?

Dont know what my options are (if any)?
Thanks in advance!
 
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Join the HOA / Body Corp / Trustees.

Once you are "on the board" ask for the contract. Once you have a copy of that, study it. Contact the likes of Ellipsis for advice on grandfathering the old contract and signing with a new FNO.

www.ellipsis.co.za

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demystifying telecoms law The central feature of the ellipsis service is the demystification of a complex area of law and its distillation into simple, practical advice. Industry experience, ongoing involvement in regulatory processes and personal service with an enduring sense of humour are the...
www.ellipsis.co.za www.ellipsis.co.za
 
SupaMonkey said:
Hey everyone,
What are my options for breaking an infrastructure monopoly in an estate?
SADV rolled out the infrastructure. Vumatel bought them over.
SADV/Vumatel are the worst priced providers in the industry probably and I am paying 8.5k a year for 20/10Mbps Uncapped Fibre where you can get offerings anywhere from 1/2 that to 1/3 that.

Signed petitions? Complaints at AGM? Approach someone like MetroFibre with confirmation of "x amount of switchovers"?

Dont know what my options are (if any)?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Your best bet would be to reach out to other residents (who are of the same opinion) and the chairperson of the board. Write to the chair person explaining the issue and that pricing is non-competitive in comparison This should give you leverage to seek a change in the FNO. If the board is competent enough they should hear your opinion and raise it as a resolution at their next board meeting. Ensure you ask for feedback if the resolution is accepted. Another thing to read into is the Memorandum of Incorporation (MOI) for your estate to confirm what power the board has in terms of electing service providers.

As stated above by @portcullis you can join the board but that can only be done at the next AGM (not sure when that would be) then seek the change from the inside. Ensure you have the votes to be elected as well.

So we had a similar issue in our estate whereby Vodacom (DFA) was the FNO and ISP. We could not use any other ISP for 3 and a half years. Eventually due to pricing complaints, connectivity problems and lack of support, the board resolved to approach other FNO’s. Openserve was the only FNO willing to install a secondary fibre line over and above Vodacom (They don’t allow anyone to use the fibre line.

I never understand why estates to not require a member/shareholders vote for FNO installation as it impacts every residence.
 
portcullis said:
Join the HOA / Body Corp / Trustees.

Once you are "on the board" ask for the contract. Once you have a copy of that, study it. Contact the likes of Ellipsis for advice on grandfathering the old contract and signing with a new FNO.

www.ellipsis.co.za

Home

demystifying telecoms law The central feature of the ellipsis service is the demystification of a complex area of law and its distillation into simple, practical advice. Industry experience, ongoing involvement in regulatory processes and personal service with an enduring sense of humour are the...
www.ellipsis.co.za www.ellipsis.co.za
Click to expand...
You don't have to be on the board or be a trustee,you are automatically a member of the body corporate if you are an owner.
You are also fully entitled to a copy of the contract if you are an owner
 
SupaMonkey said:
Hey everyone,
What are my options for breaking an infrastructure monopoly in an estate?
SADV rolled out the infrastructure. Vumatel bought them over.
SADV/Vumatel are the worst priced providers in the industry probably and I am paying 8.5k a year for 20/10Mbps Uncapped Fibre where you can get offerings anywhere from 1/2 that to 1/3 that.

Signed petitions? Complaints at AGM? Approach someone like MetroFibre with confirmation of "x amount of switchovers"?

Dont know what my options are (if any)?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I know of an Estate that broke the monopoly (ok they didnt)

The HOA/Body COrp/Trustees has signed an agreement that gave them exclusive access for 5 years
The service was predictably terrible. There were installation issues but mostly the backhaul was severely constrained
The service was terrible... but there was no clause to bring someone else in

So they waited the 5 years.
Openserve were dead keen to come in. They already had their own ducting

The existing provider was very upset

The contract and the willingness of the HOA to pressurizes the existing provider will determine

If there is exclusivity in the contract AND the service is a decent quality I see no way until the exclusivity period is over.
Blame your trustees

Get the contract 1st up
 
SupaMonkey said:
Hey everyone,
What are my options for breaking an infrastructure monopoly in an estate?
SADV rolled out the infrastructure. Vumatel bought them over.
SADV/Vumatel are the worst priced providers in the industry probably and I am paying 8.5k a year for 20/10Mbps Uncapped Fibre where you can get offerings anywhere from 1/2 that to 1/3 that.

Signed petitions? Complaints at AGM? Approach someone like MetroFibre with confirmation of "x amount of switchovers"?

Dont know what my options are (if any)?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
SADV/Vumatel hardly ever had any exclusivity clause in their contracts with estates. I know, cause I signed literally hundreds of them.

As as mentioned, get the HOA to approach a rival FNO and ask them to install.

The problem is most will decline, as there is no business case generally, so they will require guaranteed uptake before agreeing.
 
LandyMan said:
Same
Click to expand...
Impossible. An HOA doesn't have a body corporate. As an owner you automagically become a member of the HOA, but to have a say in anything meaningful you need to be elected to the Board of Directors. I know cause for my naughtiness in a previous life apparently, I am one of those.
 
pinball wizard said:
Impossible. An HOA doesn't have a body corporate. As an owner you automagically become a member of the HOA, but to have a say in anything meaningful you need to be elected to the Board of Directors. I know cause for my naughtiness in a previous life apparently, I am one of those.
Click to expand...
You are automatically part of the HOA if you are an owner, that's the question I answered :)

I was on one of these boards before, sorry for you :( :)
 
pinball wizard said:
SADV/Vumatel hardly ever had any exclusivity clause in their contracts with estates. I know, cause I signed literally hundreds of them.

As as mentioned, get the HOA to approach a rival FNO and ask them to install.

The problem is most will decline, as there is no business case generally, so they will require guaranteed uptake before agreeing.
Click to expand...
This lines up with the agreement I signed with SADV for my complex about 5 or 6 years ago.
I made sure they were open access and they were.

iirc the only clause SADV had of "significance" was that their lines they installed belonged to them and they could continue service in the complex into the future if another provider came in. I thought this was more than fair as it gave the complex extra options in the future ie breaking the "monopoly".

SADV were the only ones with the balls to install into the complex without doing a feasibility study probably because they knew that if you make something available at a reasonable price that people will use it. I think we achieved about 75% within a few months.

Vodacom did a feasibility study a few months before we went with SADV and there was only 2% interest because they wanted users to commit to a 2 year contract and were still in the process of going open access.

Metrofibre also wanted to do a feasibility study and wanted ISP exclusivity.

SADV was a no brainer to sign with and delivered on their promises. Network was also solid and I had barely any issues with them.

SupaMonkey said:
Hey everyone,
What are my options for breaking an infrastructure monopoly in an estate?
SADV rolled out the infrastructure. Vumatel bought them over.
SADV/Vumatel are the worst priced providers in the industry probably and I am paying 8.5k a year for 20/10Mbps Uncapped Fibre where you can get offerings anywhere from 1/2 that to 1/3 that.

Signed petitions? Complaints at AGM? Approach someone like MetroFibre with confirmation of "x amount of switchovers"?

Dont know what my options are (if any)?
Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I doubt its a monopoly as per my info above. You can get others to install into the complex but good luck getting buy in.
Im pretty sure Vumatel have increased fibre speeds for packages recently. Have you considered another ISP if you havent had the speed/price changes?
 
Fcon_Vpro said:
This lines up with the agreement I signed with SADV for my complex about 5 or 6 years ago.
I made sure they were open access and they were.

iirc the only clause SADV had of "significance" was that their lines they installed belonged to them and they could continue service in the complex into the future if another provider came in. I thought this was more than fair as it gave the complex extra options in the future ie breaking the "monopoly".

SADV were the only ones with the balls to install into the complex without doing a feasibility study probably because they knew that if you make something available at a reasonable price that people will use it. I think we achieved about 75% within a few months.

Vodacom did a feasibility study a few months before we went with SADV and there was only 2% interest because they wanted users to commit to a 2 year contract and were still in the process of going open access.

Metrofibre also wanted to do a feasibility study and wanted ISP exclusivity.

SADV was a no brainer to sign with and delivered on their promises. Network was also solid and I had barely any issues with them.



I doubt its a monopoly as per my info above. You can get others to install into the complex but good luck getting buy in.
Im pretty sure Vumatel have increased fibre speeds for packages recently. Have you considered another ISP if you havent had the speed/price changes?
Click to expand...
I have seen monopolies on estates before ... It relates to a limited exclusivity period for say 5 years
 
pinball wizard said:
It's highly unlikely the estate had to pay anything to get fibre reticulated there.
Click to expand...

Do you remember a certain estate in Somerset West, about 400 odd houses, where the estate had to pay a "fine" of several hundred K to SADV as fibre takeup was way below what was expected? That's the estate where one of the home owners was told by his WISP that fibre would cause cancer and he set his dogs on the SADV trenching team. I was a trustee at the time.
 
portcullis said:
Do you remember a certain estate in Somerset West, about 400 odd houses, where the estate had to pay a "fine" of several hundred K to SADV as fibre takeup was way below what was expected? That's the estate where one of the home owners was told by his WISP that fibre would cause cancer and he set his dogs on the SADV trenching team. I was a trustee at the time.
Click to expand...
Yikes. Helderberg?

I meant like a regular estate.
 
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