Flatscreen : white levels

PostmanPot said:
So, because TelevisionInfo (a site that has been criticised for being pro-LCD - no wonder you're so obsessed with it) says the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9 has the lowest black level of any HDTV they've ever seen, this means that the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9 has the deepest black level of any HDTV on the market? So, basically, this LCD has deeper blacks than any plasma?

I just want to get that clear, before I go and do my research. ;)
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Who criticised it?

Sony is one example - there are others measured at 0.01 difference. As I said in another post, I'd wager a guess my B650 has deeper blacks .... and obviously brighter whites
 
... and very unsportsman like to knock out sites, models, reviews, makes etc that prove you're incorrect :/
 
Dolby said:
Who criticised it?
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A quick Google reveals posts on both AVForums and HighDefJunkies.

But, like you can see LCDs are brighter (and as if it matters), I can see (along with other MyBb forumites) that there are lots of errors and inconsistencies on TelevisionInfo, making it hard to take them 100% seriously.

Perhaps try using a different review site once in a while?

Sony is one example - there are others measured at 0.01 difference. As I said in another post, I'd wager a guess my B650 has deeper blacks .... and obviously brighter whites
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You'd wager a guess that your B650 has deeper blacks and brighther whites? Okay...? :confused:
 
Dolby said:
... and very unsportsman like to knock out sites, models, reviews, makes etc that prove you're incorrect :/
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Actually, you are incorrect. In response to my post about the most expensive plasmas having the deepest blacks, to try and prove otherwise you linked me to a website that says the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9 has the deepest blacks that website's ever tested. Yet, the website has selectively never tested a KURO, and other high end, top-rated plasmas. Very unsportsman-like of the site you were using to try and prove something, so now unfortunately in turn, you are the stellar example of sportsmanship...
 
So - I've seen LCD whites as better after owning both - but you exclude me?

TYR has seen the LCD whites are better after owning both - but you exclude him?

The site has tested numerous HDTVs objectivly with specialised equipment - but you exclude them?

So, um, 3 outta 3 exclusions so far ... What says you're going to allow the next one? Or the next one? :/

Remember this is only about one aspect : white levels
 
However, since you bring up black levels, most plasma seem to be in 0.05 to 0.08 field (when new - some seem to get worse with age) ... And most LCDs nowadays in the 0.06 to 0.09 range ... Pretty even if you ask me?

Taking the top of the range KURO plasma and trying use that for arguments is akin to me taking my moms camera and telling everyone its the best becasue its Canon - and they are the best.

Or because Porsche Carerra GT is one of the quickest and best handling cars around, letting my neighbour know his Boxster must be the best car ever produced!

In reality where most of us live, LCD black levels are comparable to plasma but white levels are greater.
 
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Dolby said:
Taking the top of the range KURO plasma and trying use that for arguments is akin to me taking my moms camera and telling everyone its the best becasue its Canon - and they are the best.
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That's a little silly considering that is a brand and we're comparing technologies...

It would be more like comparing a DSLR with an SLR and stating the ones advantages over another as they're different technologies.
 
Dolby said:
So - I've seen LCD whites as better after owning both - but you exclude me?

TYR has seen the LCD whites are better after owning both - but you exclude him?

The site has tested numerous HDTVs objectivly with specialised equipment - but you exclude them?

So, um, 3 outta 3 exclusions so far ... What says you're going to allow the next one? Or the next one? :/

Remember this is only about one aspect : white levels
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Dude, get over yourself. I never denied that LCDs are brighter. I merely asked you to prove that all LCDs are brighter (which tbh you still haven't proved, only showing that most are brighter). That conversation ended long ago. What's relevant is how brighter whites affect (or dis-affect) plasma and picture quality. Which they don't. And that is what's important to people watching TV. So you're basically carrying on and on about a meaningless point unless the TV is in a store-bright room (dynamic contract ratio).

I showed you how you were proved wrong about blacks (post 24). And then you bring up whites and being bright, again (post 25)? Weird.
 
Dolby said:
However, since you bring up black levels, most plasma seem to be in 0.05 to 0.08 field (when new - some seem to get worse with age) ... And most LCDs nowadays in the 0.06 to 0.09 range ... Pretty even if you ask me?

Taking the top of the range KURO plasma and trying use that for arguments is akin to me taking my moms camera and telling everyone its the best becasue its Canon - and they are the best.

Or because Porsche Carerra GT is one of the quickest and best handling cars around, letting my neighbour know his Boxster must be the best car ever produced!

In reality where most of us live, LCD black levels are comparable to plasma but white levels are greater.
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No, it's about comparing the pinnacle of one technology vs the pinnacle of another technology, that directly compete with each other, i.e. plasma vs LCD. And when doing so, highest end plasma beats highest end LCD, i.e. plasma is a superior overall technology. And that is why the best TV in the world is a plasma. Is that not obvious? Does anyone else struggle to understand this? :confused: How else is one supposed to compare the best potential of each technology?
 
Juggy said:
That's a little silly considering that is a brand and we're comparing technologies...

It would be more like comparing a DSLR with an SLR and stating the ones advantages over another as they're different technologies.
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There is hope for humanity! Someone understands! :D
 
Juggy said:
That's a little silly considering that is a brand and we're comparing technologies...

It would be more like comparing a DSLR with an SLR and stating the ones advantages over another as they're different technologies.
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Um.

No - his arguments are based on a KURO only.

It makes no difference that NONE has queried buying one and usually looking at a plasma of a totally different model, a totally make and a 1/10 price ... he's continue to bring up the KURO and the best TV in the world.

That is like someone looking at a Toyota Yaris and Nissan Micro ... and saying 'oh! But the GTR is a super quick car ... get the Micra!'
 
PostmanPot said:
Dude, get over yourself. I never denied that LCDs are brighter. I merely asked you to prove that all LCDs are brighter (which tbh you still haven't proved, only showing that most are brighter
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LOL ...

I've never seen that argument used in a mature argument ;)

You've made my morning !
 
Dolby said:
Um.

No - his arguments are based on a KURO only.

It makes no difference that NONE has queried buying one and usually looking at a plasma of a totally different model, a totally make and a 1/10 price ... he's continue to bring up the KURO and the best TV in the world.

That is like someone looking at a Toyota Yaris and Nissan Micro ... and saying 'oh! But the GTR is a super quick car ... get the Micra!'
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So you're allowed to link to the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9, and I'm not allowed to link to the KURO which blew your argument out the water? I'm beginning to understand why you don't like sport. ;)

No, my arguments are based on the plasma technology in its entirety, and the KURO used to be the pinnacle of plasma technology, best exhibiting these facts.
 
Dolby said:
So - I've seen LCD whites as better after owning both - but you exclude me?

TYR has seen the LCD whites are better after owning both - but you exclude him?

The site has tested numerous HDTVs objectivly with specialised equipment - but you exclude them?

So, um, 3 outta 3 exclusions so far ... What says you're going to allow the next one? Or the next one? :/

Remember this is only about one aspect : white levels
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Here's the proof ^^^^^^

But what's the point if you just choose to exclude whateer you want?
 
PostmanPot said:
So you're allowed to link to the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9, and I'm not allowed to link to the KURO which blew your argument out the water? I'm beginning to understand why you don't like sport. ;)

No, my arguments are based on the plasma technology in its entirety, and the KURO used to be the pinnacle of plasma technology, best exhibiting these facts.
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I linked to about 5 LCD ... cheap, expensive whatever

You can exclude those and I can link to another 5 of your choice if you want?
 
Dolby said:
I linked to about 5 LCD ... cheap, expensive whatever

You can exclude those and I can link to another 5 of your choice if you want?
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No, you had your chance to give me the best. You linked to the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9, thinking you somehow had a point in doing so. Yet the KURO and other highest-end plasmas still beat it at black levels (the reason you linked the the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9).

Actually wait, you want to chop and change? Go ahead, show me the LCD that has deeper blacks than the best plasma then. ;)
 
PostmanPot said:
No, you had your chance to give me the best. You linked to the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9, thinking you somehow had a point in doing so. Yet the KURO and other highest-end plasmas still beat it at black levels (the reason you linked the the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9).

Actually wait, you want to chop and change? Go ahead, show me the LCD that has deeper blacks than the best plasma then. ;)
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WTF?

I didn't give you the best ; I gave you the first few LCD's tested!

LCDs by definition have a whiter and brighter white - that's the argument. And pretty much all of them as well.

As I mentioned, LCD idle is white and plasma is black - which is why each can produce better at their end of the spectrum.
 
Dolby said:
WTF?

I didn't give you the best ; I gave you the first few LCD's tested!

LCDs by definition have a whiter and brighter white - that's the argument. And pretty much all of them as well.
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Which I understood and conceded 31 posts ago now after asking you numerous times to teach me something.

Why even mention blacks and the Sony Bravia KDL-52XBR9? Dynamic contrast ratio is not important.

You obviously didn't read where I conceded that LCDs have brighter whites after you explained. Maybe now you understand why I think you are such a bizarre person? Try reading things properly, please. It'll help with the debates so much and I won't have to keep correcting your misrepresentations of what I say. Do I care about LCDs having brighter whites? No. Should someone with shop-lighting in their room care? Yes.

You should have stuck with your Series 5 example without bringing blacks into the discussion (a factor 1,000 times more determining than brightest whites). You know it's futile. ;)

As I mentioned, LCD idle is white and plasma is black - which is why each can produce better at their end of the spectrum.
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Righteo, then.
 
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